Arrogant and Outrageous act by UAL!

Unfortunately, I don’t agree with this anymore after watching the video of him interacting with the cops before they pulled him out. What he said to the cops was unruly.

“not submissive or conforming to rule; ungovernable; turbulent; intractable; refractory; lawless:”

He told them to go ahead and drag him off and that he didn’t care if he went to jail. He can say that with a smile while chatting on the phone, but by the definition above, that’s unruly. I would feel differently if he had spent the conversation defending his right to stay on the plane as a paying passenger, arguing that he had patients to see and how important that was for them, but he baited the cops and literally asked for the treatment he got. His manner may not have been disorderly, but his words were unruly.

Also he was talking on his phone about suing United before he got pulled out by the police–if he didn’t intend to get off, I don’t even understand that. Was he hoping to create a scene so he could sue?

I’m not going to go so far as to argue that what United did was ok. I don’t think it was at all the best solution. I honestly think they could’ve just sat there on the runway refusing to leave until someone got up out of exasperation for the sake of getting the standoff over with. And one news clip said the employees needed to be in Louisville the next day–if that’s the case, I’m still voting for limo being the better option under the circumstances. If United employees don’t have the ability to make that decision, United needs to fix that.

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What I meant is he wasn’t behaving in a way that endanger others before he was selected to be booted out. Are you concluding that he did behave that way from the video that show the police is around? He was selected to be booted out not because of unruly behavior. His unruly behavior when the cops are around is a different issue. I already agree with acre that he should obey the law enforcement agency to leave. The sequence of events is very important here.

I agree with this. You appear to have modified the part of the post I disagreed with earlier: “From the video and comment by an on-plane passenger, Dr Dao didn’t behave unruly before (deleted: the security officer yanked him out of his seat) he was selected for removal.” I agree with your modified sentence (or at least I have no reason at this time to believe otherwise).

So the events I’m seeing are:

  1. he was selected arbitrarily to be removed, not for any reason of his own behavior
  2. He refused to leave (which is “unruly” but not necessarily “unruly endangering another passenger”–I have not seen video of any discussion with the flight attendants, so I don’t know)
  3. The cops were called
  4. He refused to leave and baited them (again unruly).
  5. They removed him injuring him (and I think here there is a question of whether it was intentional or accidental–if intentional, I think they would bear liability. If accidental, then should they have known that best practices were to put up the arm rest?)

So the question, I think, becomes whether #1 is legal by the contract of carriage (from what I’ve read, no) and whether #3 was legal by virtue of him refusing to leave after they broke the contract of carriage–ie does an airline have a right to have you removed from the airplane for refusing to leave, especially if it has decided to break the contract.

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United can evict any passenger, hope the Constituion will allow a landlord to evict a tenant. If the tenant refuses to move out, police should remove them. But hope that police would not cause any concussion to the tenant. Law enforcement does not have to be bloody.

The airplane is the UA’s private property. The house is also the landlord’s private property.

If I were Dr Dao, I would have left the plane when UA or the police asked me to leave. But a concussion causing bloody removal is not warranted. Dr Dao’s refusal to leave has some legal basis. For non-legal expert, many people would think that Dr Dao has a right to stay since UA ordered Dao to leave without giving a valid reason, at least did not explain the reason well. Dr Dao paid for the prividge to ride UA airplane. UA failed to inform the passenger about the uncertainty of this paid privilidge. Dr Dao might not know that UA has a right to evict him for no reason. A fine print is not enough, it should be bold, capitalized warning. A fine print no one reads is not an effective legal document.

Can you evict any tenant without any proper reason or without some default or illegal action by tenant?

This is the same case for UAL ! They are trying to pull a person who is not at fault. It can easily be a discrimination. Think if you are Dr.Dao, do you like the way USL handled?

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Exactly! And especially when the tenant is still under lease!

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Next time, a landlord can put a fine print on the lease, “landlord can evict the tenant anytime with 5 minutes notice”

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Next time, a landlord can put a fine print on the lease, “landlord can evict the tenant anytime with 5 minute notice, even when the tenant is already sleeping”. (I’m kidding) What UA did is similar to evict the tenant during sleep.

I feel that UA is treating Dr Dao as a piece of luggage. UA can drag out the passengers just like throwing a piece of luggage out of the window.

Should passengers have a little bit of legal right after paying and waiting in the line? What percentage of people know that a passenger’s airline ticket can be voided by UA at its will?

This is why I have suggested you to hire a property manager ! You are inviting legal trouble here…

You know what, one time Tenant did not allow me to enter into my rental home. It happened to me, I was helplessly standing outside until my property manager arrived to the scene !

I was kidding! I would rather give away my property than putting in such a fine print

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Maybe this incident will result in the reform of the airline industry. They can start to have 3 kinds of tickets: guaranteed seats, unguaranteed but drag free, and the cheapest drag and drop.

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Fine print is cheating

Gotta wonder who stowed a scorpion in their luggage. Clearly the TSA was sleeping on the job…

Very glad there aren’t scorpions in the Bay Area…

I’m a little confused… can’t you break a contract with a tenant? I thought yes, but you pay damages. I thought that if you went in and tossed someone’s stuff, you pay damages, but you don’t go to jail–it’s not breaking and entering because it’s your house?

I feel like the question here is criminal vs. contract. There’s no question that they broke the contract and should pay damages (missed flight = missed appointments the next day, therefore damages for missed work). But is it actually illegal for United to have broken the contract? Because if it’s legal to break a contract, then it was legal for them to call the police to have Dao removed. (Not prudent, but legal.) But if it is illegal to break a contract, then they shouldn’t have called the police to remove him.

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United is not a criminal in this case. United CEO should resign or be fired, but I agree that he is not heading to the jail. Disgusting is not illegal, it’s an ethics issue.

However, Chicago police is a criminal in this case. There is no need to cause a concussion and bloody removal. When a passenger refuses to leave the plane and acts peacefully, they can arrest him, but I do not see there is a need to cause him to have a concussion, losing 2 teeth and a bloody nose.

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Folks,

Come on, I thought you guys were professional owners. You CAN NOT evict tenants on your personal terms put into the lease contract that are CONTRARY to the rules of the jurisdiction (city/county/state) in place. We all know of the draconian rules of the Fab 7x7. Yeah, you think you can add a few lines in your lease to your liking here and be fine? Good luck. You will be in court and facing a stiff penalty.

Besides, this is way different from the airline case. I do not believe that their rules or fine print regarding bumping (I get it, this case has its nuances) in general are in dispute or in violation of any governmental rules (as far as I know). The problem is, can Dr. Dao be physically/forcibly removed when it was NOT other fee paying passengers (but employees of the airline) needing a lift?

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A related question. What is specific performance means in service industry where delayed performance has many implications such as Airlines and buses?

I took united back to hk like 12 yrs ago once and i’ve never gone back with them again.
for domestic, i like southwest & alaska.
international asia: cathay/singapore

United is going to pay big on this one, i don’t see they have a case winning.

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