Right. Top colleges pick and choose but the lowest colleges can’t get enough… What no one is saying is that the name means a lot on the resume’.
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Of course, there would be a very simple way to boost enrollment: Create an honors program with the best CS professors out there and bring in 500 top-notch students a year. Problem solved. And I’m totally serious.
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Wouldn’t that become a top-notch school then and have the same issue with tons of applicants?
The school doesn’t matter as much now. Companies are far more open-minded about schools. They all do coding assessments of people anyway.
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More schools need to go away. Too many beyond mediocre private colleges charging 40-60k a year.
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No, just a top-notch CS program, but at least they could balance their books that way.
um it means nothing, maybe for your first job right out of school but telling all these kids they need to go to a top tier school to get a good job is a dumb lie that only puts pressure on kids and parents to all go for same schools - no one cares what school name is your resume once you’re in the workforce
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Out of curiosity, how do you feel about UC Merced and CalPoly Pomona (not SLO) Do you feel like these are schools that you’d feel confident about hiring people from? And even if you felt confident, do you think they’d make it past the “bots” that filter the resume’s?
I ask because there will be kids who, if they end up not getting into the schools they’re qualified for, and if the “safeties” -ie the ones a tier or two down that you clearly are qualified for - don’t like being used as safeties and only take you if you pledged via Early Decision, then if you don’t get into these, you may end up with an offer at UC Merced. So a kid at Paly with a 4.00 who took 12 APs, and qualifies for the full UC grade bump… Could end up at UC Merced (via the so-called “UC Statewide Guarantee”). Would you hire them?
Would they be better off just going the bootcamp route and never getting a degree?
Would they be better off taking a gap year and reapplying?
So I think this is the entire list of courses you can take at UC Merced in Computer Science & Engineering:
One reason people go to “top-tier” colleges is simply to have harder courses and more selection… Everything here is an “intro to” - great if you’re not sure what anything is, but if you really want to dive deep in Machine Learning, you’ll have to go elsewhere.
Computer Science and Engineering
• CSE 005: Introduction to Computer Applications
• CSE 015: Discrete Mathematics
• CSE 019: Introduction to Computing
• CSE 022: Introduction to Programming
• CSE 024: Advanced Programming
• CSE 030: Data Structures
• CSE 031: Computer Organization and Assembly Language
• CSE 095: Lower Division Undergraduate Research
• CSE 098: Lower Division Directed Group Study
• CSE 099: Lower Division Individual Study
• CSE 100: Algorithm Design and Analysis
• CSE 106: Exploratory Computing
• CSE 107: Introduction to Digital Image Processing
• CSE 111: Database Systems
• CSE 120: Software Engineering
• CSE 126: Information Systems and Service Design
• CSE 135: Introduction to Theory of Computation
• CSE 140: Computer Architecture
• CSE 150: Operating Systems
• CSE 151: Advanced Operating Systems
• CSE 155: Introduction to Human-Computer Interaction
• CSE 160: Computer Networks
• CSE 162: Mobile Computing
• CSE 165: Introduction to Object Orientated Programming
• CSE 168: Distributed Software Systems
• CSE 170: Computer Graphics
• CSE 171: Game Programming
• CSE 173: Computational Cognitive Neuroscience
• CSE 175: Introduction to Artificial Intelligence
• CSE 176: Introduction to Machine Learning
• CSE 177: Database Systems Implementation
• CSE 178: Computers and Networks Security
• CSE 179: Introduction to Parallel Computing
• CSE 180: Introduction to Robotics
• CSE 185: Introduction to Computer Vision
• CSE 195: Upper Division Undergraduate Research
• CSE 198: Upper Division Directed Group Study
• CSE 199: Upper Division Individual Study
Another route is taking doing community college and transferring.
My cousins did that. One is at UC Santa Cruz and other just got accepted to UC Davis, both for computer sci (the money maker).
Considering they didn’t even speak English 5-6 years ago, this is a great accomplishment.
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Bottomline - every first job out of school is really based on network, so yes if you’re blinding applying through online applications you’re gonna get filtered out somehow no matter what school you went to - this is really the thing that matters most - networking to get your resume seen by a person NOT by the bots - this would be the case whether you were at a high ranked school or not - I don’t look at school for any experienced hires I have period. so yes I would be perfectly fine hiring people from these schools.
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At the top-tier and middle tier schools, companies send employees to recruit at career fairs though - gets you past the network issue. Doubt Amazon sends recruiters to UC Merced…
I guess what I’m hearing is “Any school if you have a network, best school you can if you don’t.”
Yes, I’m an EM at one of the MAANG but recruiters do most of the work in selecting candidates. If you’re from a no name school, it’s almost an automatic rejection (unless you have some work experience). Many of the candidates, after multiple filters, are from elite schools. Either a top tier tech school or top public universities in the nation. The lowest I’ve seen is UC Davis which is no joke either. If you’re referred, it’s much easier so connection helps a lot!
Either way, it’s still hard to pass all the screenings and interviews. Probably <<5% make it to the final interview round, and out of those, maybe 10% will get an offer.
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Also how about the option to transfer to one of the other UCs after a year at Merced or Cal Poly. I know 2 kids who transferred last year, one from UC Riverside to UC San Diego and the other from UIUC to UC Berkeley. I don’t know the details of how it works but thought that this is doable if you do very well in your first year.
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Was the UIUC → UCB transfer in CS?
You risk losing credits in a transfer. Fortunately the UCs have tried to standardize the system a bit, and you could probably get all your general requirements out of the way, but if you’re not doing course-specific stuff to make you look like a great candidate, you might not be able to transfer.
If the UCR → UCSD was a CS Major, I’m impressed that they were able to do that.
Ok. Real question here:
My son believes - probably based on things he’s heard on Planet Money and other reputable sites that don’t necessarily transfer to the SF Tech microcosm - that without a Bachelor’s degree, he will be paid less, and that the low pay will lead to a lifetime of underpayment.
What do you guys think? In the long run, can someone around here simply ask to be paid at the top of their pay-band based on title or are their limits to what you can get based on degree or lack thereof?
Unfortunately, there is no generic answer to this question and largely depends on the individual & their capabilities. The story of no degree => less pay may be due to the fact that the individual did not spend enough time to enhance their skills. This may be applicable to a larger percentage of folks without a degree or formal education. This does not mean that an individual who just did not have an opportunity to go to a great college or formal education cannot put in the effort needed to build expertise on a domain (percentage of folks here will be less). Formal education does help establish solid foundation on high-skilled fields. So even a talented, no degree prodigy may need some coaching (later in life) to realize their full potential.
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If top range of salary is the goal, then you have to constantly work at it, ask/fight for it, and be willing to jump ship for it. Unfortunately at many companies one does not get rewarded for loyalty.
At the first job you might be underpaid for the same job if you have no degree or have a degree from a no name school but by 2nd, 3rd, or 4th job, if you’re not getting the salary you want/expect for someone with similar skill and experience, then the problem is you.
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This is what i thought…
I do know that in other places/fields/states, a degree is often used to determine salary and even whether you can get promoted. (For example, my father worked for Sandia National Labs and was unable to become a manager without a PHD in Physics). If you’re a teacher, it’s very cookie cutter about what you’re paid based on degrees and years worked. So if he’s hearing stuff on Planet money/podcasts about averages, all that is included.
But it seems to me here promotion is based on whether you’re doing the next job up/performance/capability.
Very good point though about making sure to keep skills up and even maybe taking courses on the side to make up for lack of basic classes (such as compiler construction) that could make a difference in capability at the higher levels.
I got my BS in Biology at a State University. No student loan debt.
I retired at 50 with a 7 figure net worth.
Had I the drive and ambition to work 12 hours a day and spend another 4 at home working on my MBA leaving about 6 hours out of every 24 after the commute for taking of sustenance, rest and sex - as some of my co-workers did - I could be retired with an 8 figure net worth but I don’t have that in me. One guy I knew had surgery to fix a slightly deviated nose septum. He felt the almost imperceptible nasality that it imparted to his voice made him lack credibility.
Had I, additionally, pursued an aggressive growth strategy with my investments instead of playing it safe in index funds I would have a 9 figure net worth.
Get a STEM degree. Don’t go up to your eyeballs in debt to do it. Live withing your means. The rest depends on your drive regardless of alma mater.
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