Mortgage Rates

I have a refi in progress via at 2.625% for no costs. I think the rates have gone up since.


Posting so that everyone who are interested can view:

Using loanmonkey for the current one. They use quicken mortgage in the backend. However their rates change daily, so my rates and cashback may or may not apply to you.

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Mortgage rates still ridiculously cheap if you have some cash laying around using the relationship discount. Looks like we can get $1.6mil loan at 2.3% for 30 years at WF.


These very low rates depend on high FICO’s, low LTV’s, no-cash out, and in many cases either relationship funds or points paid. The devil, as we know, is often found in the details.

There are some lenders here in my area advertising NEW CONFORMING LOAN LIMITS!!! STANDARD CONFORMING IS NOW AT $625,000!!! - which is not the case. Official new Conforming Loan Limits have not been announced by the FHFA. They usually do this in late November. These loan limits don’t always go up. I can remember when Conforming limits fell rather than went higher - but lenders like PenFed and others need their phones to ring with a new hook. Many of these lenders are using High Balance Conforming Loan products with Standard Conforming rates to make the deal. In areas with ONLY Standard Conforming loan limits ($548k) There are “AUS” approved Non-Conforming loans out there - jumbo products that require 2 months of cash reserves rather than traditional jumbo’s that require 6-12 months reserves.

Agency Conforming products have unique underwriting tolerances that Jumbo loans do not. Some High Balance Conforming loans do not receive Appraisal Waivers based on the structure of the loan itself. If a company is offering a NEW CONFORMING LIMIT LOAN!!! - something that sounds too good to be true - while the product may be similar to a Conforming loan, there will be some differences in how the loan is approved. Better to be aware now than to find out during the process that you’ve been sold something that appears genuine, but is not the real deal.

Thanks for reading.

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What are the net closing costs ?

I’ll find out and post it here. I didn’t read anything out of ordinary on bogleheads though. We are down paying 30% but have over $1mil with WF broker so we basically will get 0.5% off the 30yr. We might borrow more and/or buy more points since the rates are so good. I wonder if we can get it down to 2%… :thinking:

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WFC is desperate for business? Guess borrowing from them is ok, won’t create ghost accounts any more right?

Anyhoo, I got 2.625% 30 year fixed cash out re-fi.


The rates are super low right now. Able to refi on our primary residence and save big on monthly payment.

However, all the loan companies are interested in and offered low rates for non-conforming loan.

I have difficulty finding rates for rentals with couple hundred thousands $ loan. Agents either ignore my inquiry; tell me outright they are not interested; or some say it nicely that they cannot offer competitive rates but welcome any business on larger loans. Couple online banks that offered rates were ridiculous high (3.5%-4%) and not worth refinancing.

Ditto. I also have been told the same that there is no money to be made on this. I did a cash out refinance on one and paid off the small loan with that since I plan to hold those anyway. After that I can open up large HELOC on that paid off house.

Care to share the rate you get? Did you go with ARM or 30yr fixed? 7yr ARM are quite good right now, I was quoted 2.125 and 1.875 with relationship discount.

BofA 15-year fixed: 2.375%. No point. Fee is <$700, which is a preferred banking discount thru our employer. Then additional BofA relationship discount (bring money from other banks to BofA) can reduce the rates to 2.25% and 2.125%.

We like 15-year loans. It has lower rate than 30-years. And significantly reduces the interest payment, starting from the 1st payment and also the cumulative. The downside is that monthly payment is higher.

I’m not sure ARM makes sense right now. I am guessing rates will be higher in 5-7 years. But who knows. 5 years ago, many thought rates were the lowest ever, and I thought so too; but rate has continued to drop.


I wonder if it’s cheaper to go with morgan stanely’s liquidity asset credit line. One of the house we sold, the buyer went through this route and just paid all cash. Some people even used IBKR margin loan as well.

Not CPA here. Just talking thru this. Feel free to correct if wrong.

Primary residence interest payment can reduce tax liability thru itemized deduction. I know Trump reduced this. Depending on situation, part or all of the interest payment can be deducted.

Rental property interest payment is Schedule E expense that is subtracted from rent income.

I am not aware of any tax advantage of personal credit line. So I would suspect the tax savings on mortgages outweigh any interest rate or convenience benefit on credit line. Maybe some buyers use credit line to buy the house (for negotiating leverage and to get offer accepted), and then take out loan after closing.


Thinking of selling within 7 years?

Right, I would think it might be deductible for investment properties though as an expense. It might be tricky what the definition of a loan/expense for the house is via the tax code. Consult your CPA or tax lawyer! :man_shrugging:

We just did that with WF but only with 500k discount so got 2.5%, closing costs were like 2k? our LTV was only 80% so wasn’t even that low.


Get off the sidelines, people!!!

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Judging by recent events, the new refinancing tax will not be long in coming.

Welcome! Care to elaborate or link story of what is perhaps coming down the road?