Litigation = cash only buyers. You usually get a 30-40% discount on HOA litigation.
Oh come on guys!
Do what Trump does. File for BK, problem solved. 
I am sure they did more than min required. .Many times bedrock depth pier option is not available, I am actually not alllwed to criticize other engineers without following protocol. âŚdue to professional ethics. âŚbut engineers fuck up like everyone elseâŚLet the lawyers settle itâŚAn be rest assured there are armies of forensic engineers, aka plaintiffs whores, frothing at the mouth to get on boardâŚI worked on buildings to 15 storiesâŚ
The airport was my first jobâŚWe drove 200 kip capacity piles up to 120â to refusal âŚwhich meant 40 blows per ftâŚmuch more than that the pile breaksâŚyou can only drive a pile to its capacity. .I was personally responsible fro breaking 3 out of hundreds driven. âŚDriving piles to bedrock may not be practical. ⌠normally you drill and pour piles to bedrockâŚdont know know if that is feasible at 200â
The first 40â was bay mudâŚCouldnât even walk in itâŚwe had to put down 2âof gravel for a work surface. .With one blow the pile would drop 40ââŚthen we punched through layers of sand and siltâŚthousands of years worth of bay depositsâŚhundres of blows per pileâŚmy job was to log the blows and to tell the pile butts when to stopâŚ
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You are the experienced builder. I am not. But again, the facts apparently are not in dispute:
- Their lame advisors (architects, geologists, soil experts, swamis, palm readers, feng shui experts) did not advise them to go down to bedrock, even though apparently, other buildings in the area did and knowing this is earthquake country. STRIKE 1!
- One reason why they may not have gone to bedrock, only 200 more feet, was to save costs. STRIKE 2!
- Then the geniuses decide to build using old concrete technology that is heavier instead of steel. My god, must we bring in Sir Isaac Newton to explain what happens next??? STRIKE 3!!! YOUâRE OUT!!! PLEASE PROCEED TO SINK LIKE THE TITANIC!!!
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As anticipated, the homeowners are furiousâŚ
The mentality exihibted here is why I no longer practice engineering. âŚeveryone has an Opinion, but no one has the factsâŚI will reserve judgement. âŚBut this is one of many reasons why I wont work or in invest in SFâŚ
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I like this commentâŚ!
What do you mean??? I guess, sinking 16 inches is an opinion, right? It is an illusion, right? Maybe its the darn salt air or fog that caused the drop, yeah yeah
First of all, as a builder (hopefully a reputable one), if you are presented going into the job knowing sure as heck well that (A) it is earthquake country, and soil sucks in general around here, (B) going to bedrock, which is not far down and it is as solid as it gets, and (C) make sure you build with steel since that is lighter and really more common for high rises, why wouldnât you follow suit, @Elt1??? I mean, you really canât get it simpler than that, can you? Letâs face it, the developer Fâd up big time⌠really big time
This is a classic case of a developer CUTTING CORNERS and unfortunately will pay dearly for it. Who doesnât know contractors that cut corners thinking oh the owner wonât see or feel it? Well, karma is a b*tch. This developer is finished. God, if you really think the developer did not do his due diligence please give me a list of the places you have built. I will remember to avoid all as much as possibleâŚ
After just working on a simple SFH remodel in SF with various contractors - all I can say is that at every stage there are missed or ignore setup per instruction or design. So from design to build - there could be lots of âlooseâ ends. I guess they are not the critical âbearing wall or columnâ which takes a few more due diligence.
With a tall building project - I can only guess how many screws are missing or âoff markedââŚ
Thanks for chiming in, @BAzx. Contractors/developers are notorious for cutting corners. You almost have to be there, watching them in order to make sure things are done thoroughly and according to your requests.
Yes, I donât have a dog in the fight with this Milennium mess but imagine if you owned a unit there. You are essentially screwed and wondering if this mess will ever go away. Hopefully, it can be fixed but imagine the bad reputation the building has now. Who will willingly buy there now?
I forgot that my poker buddy was a senior lead architect for an internationally known architect firm before he decided to retire at the ripe old age of 50. I want his opinion since this building would be something he would have designed and built in Asia.
"Curbed should get their facts straight before they sow more confusion. In the firstarticle on this they stated some of the reasons the building was sinking were because it was a concrete and not a steel-framed building, and that it was located on fill. Concrete or steel or wood or plastic doesnât matter â all that matters is that the foundation be designed to carry the required load. And while the foundation design will change depending on the soil conditions where the building is located, in the end the only relevant item is the load of the building compared to the capacity of the design.
Itâs easy to simplify this whole thing into âoh my god they didnât drill into bedrock!â but thatâs a very unsophisticated viewpoint. In Ye Olden Days of skyscrapers, say Manhattan c. 1900, sure, you had to reach bedrock because the building foundations were very simple and didnât really have a way to deliver the load other than to sit on rock. But that is not the case these days. Piles can develop the necessary capacity via sitting on hard rock, but they can also do so via friction, or via giant concrete rafts that spread the load, or they can treat the soils to improve them via injection, etc. The question here is whether there was a mistake in calculating the loads or the foundation design?
As for TransBay, thatâs really a question of timing and how deep their excavation was. If Millennium had piles that were 80 ft under a raft that was presumably under a couple basements, did TransBay really affect it if it was only excavating 65 ft deep? Thatâs not deep enough to affect the layer under all of those piles. The story doesnât wash, and the timing really makes the excuse suspect.
Might be a good idea for Curbed to look up the Harmon in Las Vegas, because that is likely where we are headed â a fundamental design mistake that cannot be corrected."
This will be fun. âŚThe lawyers and forensic engineers will make careers on this buildingâŚ
Let the games beginâŚhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Harmon
Well, how come this developer of this building which is right next door practically felt it was necessary to go to bedrock?
The hardened slab, in all its mightiness, is but half of the towerâs earthquake protection. It will keep the building from toppling sideways, but what about sliding back and forth? In a big earthquake, the ground is actually trying to slip sideways underneath the building. âYou need something to keep you from changing addresses,â says Joseph. Those somethings are called piles, in essence underground stilts connecting the building with the bedrock. In the lowlands of San Franciscoâs Financial District, bedrock is 300 below street level. âWe have 42 piles that go all the way down and are socketed 15 to 25 foot deep into the rock,â says Tymoff.
Any developer, contractor, handyman worth his salt (and for selfish reasons) will plan to do enough or try to so that he doesnât have to come back on a job. Makes sense, time is money and you ainât getting paid to come back. And to be fair, we donât know for sure the Transbay dig is not partially at fault for the leaning but the building did sink already more than it should have before the Tranbay project started. You said it yourself, the lawyers and forensic engineers will make CAREERS on this building. So, how can you honestly defend the developer then? It was a bad build, admit it.
Letâs not forget the city of SF signed off on all the plans Millennial gave them. So that must mean Millennial is within the bound of safety in the eyes of SF.
Accidents happen. Sh*t happens. Things donât always go as planned. I donât think there is any evidences of wrongdoing or corner cutting yet. There may very well be. But so far I havenât seen any evidence.
LolâŚNow you know why those who hate the government will be asking for its help coming the suing part of the projectâŚ
I am telling you guys, I have worked in construction and the hiding and the lying on the part of the general contractor or the flipper is very evident to those working there but not the inspectors. If they followed the rules, they wouldnât make a dime. Maybe a quarter
It would suck if bought within last year.
According to refin record the previously featured $7.5M unit 53c went into contingency in May but didnât go through. I assume that not many people know about this tilting issue back then.
Well at least redfin estimates that it still worth 6.1M so the owner is still 2M in the green.
Redfin estimate is a bad joke. Even worse than zillow.
What? I have read the contrary actuallyâŚ
http://go.homebay.com/blog/which-home-value-estimator-is-better-redfin-or-zillow
I was the design Engineer on the Fluor building in 1980 in RWCâŚNow part of the Oracle campusâŚIt was the largest building at the time in San Mateo countyâŚ280,000 sfâŚSurvived the 1989 quake with no issuesâŚUsed piers driven to refusal and concrete shearwall construction. .still an acceptable way to buildâŚEngineers used to have to stand under the Roman arches when the forms were stripped. âŚit fell they diedâŚno kudos if it didnât. .Same todayâŚengineers get no recognition for great buildings. .just scorn for bad ones. âŚThat is one reason, low pay being the other, why I retired in 2001âŚnever got any recognition for being the youngest engineer to design the biggest building on the Peninsula âŚAnd that is why I give no acknowledgement to the peanut gallery of criticsâŚ
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