Uh, Aren't We Dealing With Similar Problem?

We seem to allow all this building around here yet we do not have any concrete plans on upgrading/expanding the transit systems around here. My coworkers bitch about BART all the time…

We should ask Brown to force local municipalities to build more public transport. It’s too important to leave that to the useless pols sitting in city halls.

Yeah, the traffic here has to rival LA now. I don’t take BART much but Muni across the fab 7x7 for me at a early hour is still nearly 45 minutes minimum door to door. That, is crazy.

The winners of Bay to Breakers can do that in 35 min…lol

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Not to mention that there are all these Uber and Lyft drivers out there trolling for riders. It’s gridlock when it really doesn’t need to be.

Actually BART and the CMAs overseeing road transportation improvements have thrown down the gauntlet to the local jurisdictions to direct their growth or pay up for the increased demand for transportation infrastructure that it brings. I’ve heard Grace Crunican throw out the very challenge in public meetings when public officials are balking at the cost of new BART cars and expanded service.

BART is looking for a TOD program manager as I type this. Their position is that this is the future for the BA.

Yeah. BART is so critical fares cover what percent of the operating costs? They cover 0% of the capital costs.

No kidding. We need more roads, not more mass transit. If we can’t build out, we need to build up. Mass transit can’t work in an area spread out like ours is. Money down a rathole. Masses here don’t transit from one fixed location to another.

Don’t we get it?

The beauty of some towns, like SF, is going to be changed to the level that it won’t be that SF of many years ago. If people without any clue of what’s going on behind curtains keep flocking to that area, eventually their own actions, without them thinking they have any effect, will create a city surrounded by high rises, which will make that area not worth for what it was originally famous, a tourist attraction.

Remember, there are businesses, there are other areas in public land that are the only ones not effected by the supply and demand. You can build multiple housing units, you can surround the city with high rises, but these institutions or public places are just there, they can’t be stretched, they can’t be increased but diminished, you can cut their dimensions and eventually make them disappear for the lack of land to build homes. Will they figure out that the SF zoo land is needed for more housing? The museums? How about parks? What’s going to happen to Chinatown?

What good comes from living in a city, any city, well known for x or y motive, if passing the time it will turned into another unrecognizable city like others? How good is it, as in my experience is, to visit a city, if to park a car, and go anywhere, even in times of extreme necessity as doing #1 or #2 you will spend 2 hours chasing a parking space? And more people coming over augmenting the problem?

Let’s admit it, there wasn’t any plan, nobody thought that the increasing population would be a problem in the future. People, whoever, in government or not just went to do what they know best, making money and screw the rest of us.

Same can be said for roads.

You’re right manch. This is true of public transit, public streets and roads, public airports and public shipping ports.

Everyone wants to believe there is a free lunch. Our government, on all levels, gladly steps in and provides. For a fee of course. Including ridiculous administrative costs and regulations upon regulations. All for our own good of course. :grimacing:

Pretty soon, everything being provided becomes a “right”.

Sooner or later, the piper demands payment.

The best thing we can do for all of these is have a user pays system. Direct users should pay. And, indirect users will pay as well based on the amount the direct users will charge for their goods and services.

This and this alone encourages efficiency in use of the resource and provides incentive to find the highest and best use.

By the way, this isn’t uniquely American. All public transit in all countries suffers from this same model. It’s like monkey see, monkey do.
RE is parallel to this. The same scenario applies.

I meant to add:

  1. HOT lanes are a half-assed governmental experiment with a user pays model. Too bad we don’t go all the way…to toll roads.

  2. http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoline-taxes-and-tolls-pay-only-third-state-local-road-spending

  3. http://mtc.ca.gov/sites/default/files/StatSumm_2014.pdf

And, for those of you who thought bridge tolls were the ultimate way to link users and the infrastructure, think again. When government gets involved, systems get distorted. Do you know where your $6 bridge toll is going?


Public transit as we know it. long ago left the local level. Majority of funding is state based. Federal is a close second. Local is last. Regional planning is the new mantra.

It isn’t in the hands of city hall much anymore. The pols that sit on the various commissions and boards are window dressing for our betters in transportation planning.

How much of road costs are paid my gas taxes? I know it’s gotten bad as the government pushed for higher fuel economy. It cuts gas tax revenue.

I read somewhere it’s not nearly enough. Gas tax has not risen since Reagan and how many more cars and roads do we have now? Also the uber rich driving tesla are not paying a single cent. Where is the outrage?

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You mean these guys buying Teslas are receiving handouts?..Hmm…:laughing:

AND apparently getting 100% financing loans to boot!!! Where is the justice in the world, right???

About 1/3rd