I know several people from the Midwest including a few from Indiana. .They will never go back…Been hopeless since the 70s…But they are all very nice people…Great place to grow up and then leave. .I am in Salt Lake City, today…totally different vibe…Growing like crazy…Been coming here for 35 years, has totally changed. .Plus my sister raised 4 kids here…Great place to grow up…Too boring for young adults…Her kids have all left but they may come back…Very inexpensive and great skiing. …Gas is less than $2. And you can buy a house for $100/sf…Cheapest sushi anywhere…Decent hotel for less than $60…
2m in the MSA…
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The arrogance of tech is amusing. It’s not different than the auto industry’s arrogance. When Detroit had the highest median income in the country, did anyone think Detroit would end up as it is today? There was a point where 1/7 jobs were related to cars. That seems crazy but not when you realize there’s designing, building, selling, maintenance, road constriction/maintenance, toll booths, raw materials, parts suppliers, etc.
People thought nothing would ever replace the auto industry in driving the national economy. They thought America and specifically Detroit would always dominate it. Ivy League grads moved to Detroit to work for car companies. The auto industry was the highest paying with huge profit sharing checks. SF is following the exact same political game plan as Detroit. Study history if you don’t want to repeat it.
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The healthcare industry is using the most of this countries resources and will continue to eat up more…20% of the economy headed towards one third up from 10% in 1988…the only other industry with this kind of growth is petcare
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“Bradstreet’s body was found dead from an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound in the Broad River in Rutherford County, North Carolina, in June 2015, after his Buford, Georgia, medical office was raided by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in connection with an investigation into GcMAF treatments.[4][19][20]”
Did pharmaceuticals caused FDA to investigate Dr Bradstreet? Why did he commit suicide after an investigation?
We’ve been through other disruptions. I think the difference this time is the new jobs require much higher skill and not everyone will be able to do them. Virtually everyone was able to transition from working on a farm to in a factory. Part of the issue is our population is just too big now. It completely changes the math on social programs when only 20% of people are paying for everything.
Nobody knows the future. But as of today, Trump is right that outsourcing is the reason for US underemployment.
It’s simply not true that automation has already killed jobs. Worldwide number of jobs has increased dramatically in the last 30 years. If huge countries such as China and India can generate 10s of millions of jobs and increase the worker’s pay level by 100 fold, it’s hard to argue against Trump.
If you are saying that automation WILL kill jobs in the future, it’s a speculation and I do not want to argue about it even though I am not sold on it. There will be new jobs created based on human needs. Maybe everyone can hire a nanny, personal trainer, a dog walker, get massage once a day, hire private teacher, etc. We can provide more services to each other and charge each other a good amount. Another solution is to provide 30 years of mandatory education and provide half year free school to each adult every year for them to learn new skills or simply learn new things for fun. It’s foolish to worry about abundance. We only need to worry about shortages.
Income and jobs can be created out of thin air as long as we have an abundance, as long as we have robots to produce enough for us. We can have robots to take over all the jobs in farming, industrial, construciton and environmental cleanup. All of us can freely work on anything we enjoy and have a 100% unemployment. If you define the new job as enjoying life, we’ll have a 100% employment of enjoying life industry.
I think the recent talking about automation is a political coverup. Robots have been there for many years, they are not created when the election started.
US auto factories used to employee 5,000 workers per shift. Now it’s 500. That’s a pretty dramatic loss of jobs due to higher automation. The white collar part is speculation, but the blue collar part has been happening for the last 2-3 decades.
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[quote=“BAGB, post:28, topic:1369”]
Worldwide number of jobs has increased dramatically in the last 30 years.
[/quote]Can you express them as a ratio of the population e.g. number of jobs/ population size. I guess we can ignore child labor converted to proper job as I doubt we have the data. Can also ignore housekeeping and home improvements done by oneself, again because of lack of data.
[quote=“BAGB, post:28, topic:1369”]
Worldwide number of jobs has increased dramatically in the last 30 years. If huge countries such as China and India can generate 10s of millions of jobs and increase the worker’s pay level by 100 fold, it’s hard to argue against Trump.
[/quote]Can you show pay from baseline to now for both?
For example (using puck from air figures),
Pay China India US
1980 $1 $1 $5,000
2010 $100 $100 $50,000
Similar for employment, for example (using puck from air figures),
Employed China India US
1980 1 in 100k 1 in 100k 95k out of 100k
2010 100 in 100k 100 in 100k 94k out of 100k
Don’t think auto was outsourced but do you have similar data for China and India?
Actually I think outsourcing slow down automation… true?
I’m not sure how auto factories in those countries work. I haven’t been to one. Cars are big and expensive to ship via ocean. Rail is the most cost effective way to ship them. Most companies build them where the consumer for the vehicle is. Even foreign car companies are building most of their US sales volume in the US or Mexico. I think automation slowed down the outsourcing, because it lowered the cost to manufacture in the US. When you look at total cost of manufacturing + shipping, automation makes manufacturing in the US attractive.
My job is not economic research. But my understanding of real world economics is better than many fake elite economists. It is not that they are dumb and I am smart. It’s because they are paid to mislead people and I’m providing an honest opinion without any external motive.
China/India’s enormous jobs gain in the last 30 years is staggering. The new non-farm jobs are more than total US employment. It would be silly to say that automation has caused US employment issues. It’s amazing that fake elite liberals are using this narrative to fight against Trump. It won’t work because people are not as dumb as you think. This logic is as laughable as blaming Russia for Hillary’s loss.
Many fake elite academias are not focusing on real research. Their research is focused on how to mislead the people, how to please the high ranking officials and the powerful political forces, how to manipulate public opinion.
Annual Jobs Created: China 13.2 million, USA 1.6 million (2008 to 2013).
"Job creation is another indicator. According to the Wall Street Journal, since the recession, China has created 66 million new jobs, averaging 13.2 million new jobs a year for the past 5 years. China’s government figures show that the service sector created 37 million new jobs in the past five years, with another 29 million in the industrial sector, which includes manufacturing, construction and mining.
By contrast, the Department of Labor reports that 6.8 million net new jobs were created over the past 3 years — but that doesn’t even keep pace with high school graduates (3.4 million are expected this year alone)."
It’s not surprising job growth is lower than needed. Just look at labor force participation rate.
The jobs were lost to robots? AFIK, factory workers, software engineers and customer service reps in India/China/Mexico are all real humans. What’s the point for Apple. IBM and Microsoft to outsource jobs to robots in foreign countries? Isn’t it better to keep robotic workers in US?
Don’t understand how China and India manage to create so many jobs relate to USA’s ability to create jobs, and how both relate to automation and outsourcing.
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What do you think is causing US auto factories going from 5,000 workers per shift to 500? Also, you can’t lump all manufacturing together in a generic bucket. As I pointed out, outsourcing automotive assembly isn’t as practical as you might think because the high cost of shipping a car via ocean. Even Apple was doing final assembly of US iMacs in the US (not sure if they still do). It was cheaper to ocean ship an iMac to the US and do final assembly and config to reach the customer fast vs. air shipping fully assembled iMacs from China.
India, China and Mexico created jobs by US companies to outsource jobs and lower cost. It was a job outsourcing. Is it not related to US employment?
There is no way to deny job outsourcing and exaggerate the automation. Automation has been a constant force even before outsourcing. Automation is an old thing, nothing new. Modern industrial is based on automation. All the machines are a way of automating some tasks. This website is an automation since postal workers and I do not need to mail my opinions to each of you.
I recall long ago, Americans are very happy that companies are outsourcing. Outsource low pay low skill jobs like manufacturing and old tech, and keep high pay jobs like design, development and marketing. Why are Americans wanting those low pay jobs back?
Who was happy? The unemployed or the managers or the investors?
The standard of living is close in now. Many Indians and Chinese are now more wealthy than Americans. If some day, Indian are richer than Americans, Americans will want all the low end jobs.
Also there is no low pay jobs. You can pay a janitor $200k a year, then it became a high pay job. With outsourcing, I can reduce your pay. Without outsourcing, I’ll have to pay you more.
If we can outsource the jobs of radiologists, I’m sure American radiologist will earn much less, definitely not 300k a year. So radiologists can also be a low pay job since you can hire a good radiologists for $20k a year in other countries.