I[quote=“marcus335, post:11, topic:2220”]
guess now we see how people really feel. There was a lot of support for taxing the 1% more to help the poor. Now that some people realize the government might reach into their pocket to help the poor they are suddenly against it. That’s real nobl
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If I have to pay more tax to relieve burden of low income families, i would happily accept it. However, if i have to pay more tax to make top 0.1% people richer, i am absolutely against it.
For example, my tax increased with obama care without giving me any benefit within foreseeable future. However, i strongly support it because i belive it helps people who need health care yet can’t afford it.
This wish-list type tax reform doesn’t have any detail not even tax braket. A few known factors are
Highest tax rate would be significantly lower than now. Only super rich will get benefit from it.
State/property tax will be removed from deduction. Blue states would be hit by this hard.
Only part i like is increasing standard deduction although it doesn’t give me any benefit. However, i don’t want to pay more tax to compensate tax revenue loss due to lowered tax rate for super rich.
Isn’t it logical that blue state people who are not in super rich group don’t like this reform?
Majority of the blue state people will benefit from it, even though they still will make noise to pretend they do not like anything from Trump, because majority of the blue state folks have a middle to low income.
Only the 2-10% blue people may not get as much benefit such as Jane. But numerically the 2-10% can be ignored in political game.
Tax has to come from some people. The bottom 47% do not pay federal tax. With a higher standard deduction, maybe the bottom 60% won’t need to pay much federal tax. Of the remaining taxpayers, the best pick is the 2-10%. You can either slip below 10%, or jump to top 2%.
In the war of 60% vs 10%, 60% win. The 2-10% will be guaranteed to the loser. The 10-40% is the swing bloc, better try to get the support from middle class and modest upper middle class.
Many BA “upper middle class” are considered "wealthy elites“ for federal tax purpose since there is no cost of living adjustment. 100k may be considered to be “low income” for section 8 qualification, but it will be taxed as upper middle class
Please, explain me why top 2% should be excluded from “taking extra tax burden due to tax cut on low incomers”.
As a matter of fact, top 0.1% (I am not sure top 0.5-2% range people would really see the benefit from this tax reform especially if they live in Blue state) would get huge tax cut from this reform.
Like I said, if the main idea of this reform is to reduce tax for those who are in low-middle class, I would happily accept it. However, top 0.1% should take the extra burden with rest of top10% instead of getting huge tax cut.
For example, if 2x standard deduction comes in with fairly distributed extra tax burden to all top 10% (including 0.1% super riches) and highest tax rate doesn’t change, I would support it.
It seems to me that main purpose of this tax reform is actually to provide huge tax cut for 0.1% (like Trump himself and his family). To achieve this, they picked scapegoat group (2-10% according to you, 0.5%-10% in my opinion), push all burdens to them and give rest of people little bit of tax cut to make them feel happy.
Anyway, such discussion is meaningless until we see the real details(like tax bracket) to calculate “gain/loss chart per each income range”. Then, people can judge if majority of American can take the meaningful benefit from this tax reform and if the extra burden is fairly distributed to all top 10% (again including 0.1% super riches).
BTW, I am not in this range.
Regardless of “my personal tax amount increases or decreases with this reform”, I am opposed to it because this reform gives the huge benefit to super rich unfairly and that is not beneficial to US which has already suffered for increasing income inequality in my opinion.
Trump is good on corporate taxes, but not on income taxes, esp removing state income taxes from itemization. Increasing standard deduction is good, but removing state income taxes from itemization is too bad !
Canada does not have mortgage interest deduction and its people still love homeownership. I favor a simpler tax code.
Can we adopt a 15% flat tax to everyone instead? Same tax rate for corporations and individuals? That would solve all the arguments about who gets more tax cut.
We need to treat everyone equally. Loving a poor person is not better than loving a rich person. We should give the same amount of love to everyone, poor or rich.
Let everyone pay tax is better for the democracy. When everyone contributes to tax, everyone will have an incentive to monitor government spending and reduce waste.
If we have a big party and only Jane pays the bill, people may order many expensive stuff not really needed. If the party cost will be shared by everyone, people may choose a more sensible spending plan.
A democracy with a majority of people not paying tax is a dangerous democracy.
Do you like to see Jane go bankrupt by hosting a party where partygoers have zero responsibility but a lot of right to spend?
Do you like to see our democracy go bankrupt due to a majority of people spending other people’s money, tons of right and zero responsibility?
Stop mumbling jumbling nonsense. Twhitler is bad for the common people. Period!
He lied about fighting against wall street. I remember the famous “wall street-Goldman Sachs is getting away with murder folks!” meaning he despise them for being the ones destroying this country(?) And then, he hired them into his cabinet. Are you for real a thinking person?
For example: Cutting benefit programs for the elder. You are going to be one of them pretty soon. And their budget may be equal to one day of the so called president golfing in his own golf course and where most of the money will go to his pockets instead of going to different sites every weekend and make everybody earn $ by hosting the president. Instead, we have businesses being damaged by the motorcade and the blockade because an ignorant and petulant president wants to play golf! And he mocked the former for it!
There’s got to be a point when you concede you are supporting a president that is not good, even for your own good.
I thought we were talking about house bubbles (which we don’t have yet, please). Turns out we are going back to talking about Trump’s tax non-plan.
I actually think the discussion is backward. People here assume Trump’s tax plan will hurt us but I actually think it will help many of us here on the forum. Trump wants to get rid of the AMT. Most dual income family here pulling in engineers salaries are hit with AMT. So sweating over loss of deductions which you can’t use because of AMT is pretty meaningless.
That’s why I say any detailed analysis is futile without any details to work on.
I myself will most likely benefit because of the 15% pass-thru rate. I don’t like the plan because it makes our country worse off, and will ultimately make me and my family worse off in the long run.
Top 1% earn about 17% of the income and pay 37% of the income taxes. That’s not “fair” enough for liberals. The thing most Americans don’t realize is other countries actually pay the tax rates you see. Most countries don’t let people deduct mortgage interest, property tax, or local taxes. They don’t have 42% of their population paying zero.
There’s a lot of debate over rates, but you can see it doesn’t impact taxes collected as a percent of GDP. The percent decreases in recessions. It’s pretty flat considering top rates have been between 35% and 90%.
Also, if you look at OECD countries with taxes under 20% of GDP they grow faster than countries with taxes over 40% of GDP.
Americans, especially Californians pay double taxes…How many other countries even have states…Most of our states charge income tax, all charge property and sales tax…Many us pay more in state and local taxes than Fed tax…Now Trump wants us to pay tax on a tax…He is merely appealing to his red state base…Most red states have low local taxes…The blue states with high local taxes are being hit…They don’t matter to Trump. .he doesn’t need their vote. …
Michigan, a purple state, voted for Trump…has high property tax. $7000 on a $200k house like my friend owns and income tax…They will regret their vote.
4.25% income tax, plus 22 cities charge city income taxes and 6% sales tax…
I remember when sales tax was deductible and all interest was deductible. …
Canada had provincial income taxes and property taxes. They also have 5% national VAT plus provincial VAT similar to state income tax. Plus, their federal income tax rates are higher without all the deductions we get. If you make a Bay Area income in Canada, you can guarantee over 50% would go to taxes, and you can’t deduct your way out of it. It puts “free healthcare” in perspective.
We already pay over 50% in taxes…Canada is one of the few countries with states…
13% ca tax, 13% ssi, 39% fed, 3.8% obamacare, plus sales tax, property tax, gas tax, sin taxes, excise taxes…Cali leads the way. .Even Taxechusettes would be proud…Many European socialists countries would be envious of all the taxes we are giving to our spendthrift governments…
CA is only 13% if you earn over $1m. 39.6% is the marginal rate. No one is paying that as an effective rate. We get so many deductions people pay about half their marginal rate.
Other countries have all those taxes, higher gas taxes, and higher income taxes. They don’t get tons of deductions where they only pay half the rate of their tax bracket. Finland has free college and healcare but if you earn a Silicon Valley income then the municipal and federal income tax is over 50% (effective rate). They still have property tax, VAT, etc on top of the income tax. You could end up keeping 25% of your income.
Those podunk countries don’t pay for their defense…A big part of out Fed Tax goes for defense. …in fact defense and entitlements take most of the revenue. …Leaves us little for socialists perks like free medical and college tuitions …
I have got news for them…If Russia wants Finland it can take it anytime…Trump won’t stop them
Eight days ago, when Trump announced that his tax plan was nearly complete, no one was more surprised than chief economic adviser Gary Cohn.
“Not a single word of a plan was on paper, several administration officials said, and Treasury officials worked all weekend to draft a one-page summary of his principles with a news conference the president demanding the action,” Politico reported.
“This was all about doing something in the first 100 days and really it’s doing the process backwards,” said one unnamed official.
