Trading wars impact

[Roy321]

@BA_lurker

How many states can afford that level of investment?

ONE

[john]

@Ironduke

Same for Japan as well 60-70 years ago. That’s true for India too!,

But India or Japan is not stealing our IP, India is not building islands in Indian Ocean and I have never seen Indian Americans in US justifying the rise to superpower through cheating and stealing. Indians are not doing State level espionage on American companies or using Kangaroo courts to ban US companies from selling.

Come on. If you were around in the 1980’s, Japan was frequently accused of “copying” or “filching” American technologies. For India, all drugs were generic drugs until maybe close to 2000 when they started granting drug patents. Even today, it is much more difficult to get drug patent to India. Nothing wrong with that, and that’s why drugs in India are much affordable.

Countries that are catching up do take shortcuts, or do whatever they can get away with to maximize their own interest. The scale, as @manch indicated, may be different in reality vs in perception.

China has to be contained, for the sake of our interest. To dismiss a huge growing economy could turn out to be the biggest mistake in history. Both Obama and Trump see the rising of China and both tried to deal with it. Approaches are different. It is hard to say which one is more effective. Just hope it doesn’t lead to a disaster.

[wuqijun]

@john

China has to be contained

Did the British empire try to contain America’s rise and how successful were they?

[BA_lurker]

@manch

How much IP did China steal? There’s some stealing no doubt. But scale is not as big as Trump claims. There are also courts companies can go to. Many did.

If China stole as much as you seem to suggest, its semiconductor industry would not be as backward as it is today. Ditto for its pharma, airplanes, on and on.

China rising to superpower will act as a counterbalance to America. For many parts of the world like the Middle East they would welcome a more balanced power structure. American media is very brain-washy. Read some foreign media to get a more balanced view.

Wanted to address some of the points raised above. I won’t name countries.

Industrial espionage is pretty widespread but there are a handful of countries that are really focused on it

The approach one country has taken is to steal the info but the info by itself is not much use. So they then push it into a state owned enterprise or associated private entity. The enterprise then will hire people from the company that the data was stolen from at fairly ridiculous compensations to help teach them how to use the data. If compensation doesn’t work, they resort to other means if the person they want to hire has means they can use to leverage

I can go more into this but this is a public forum.
If you are in a tech company, you wouldn’t go wrong by requesting a briefing on IP theft and industrial espionage from the FBI. They have a local office focused on this

WRT to why are they behind on things like jet engines and what not. The nature of China’s economy, development and IP development has resulted in industries that are good at scale and cost but poor on precision. So you see them lagging on high precision stuff (jet engines, etc). This discussion by itself if a long long thread and also links back to this issue of IP theft

[john]

@wuqijun

Did the British empire try to contain America’s rise and how successful were they?

Attempts will be made regardless of the history.

[wuqijun]

They will be futile.

[manch]

No doubt China is stealing IP. Amount of data is not the same as dollar amount. I mean to address the dollar value of the IP, not the sheer size of the data.

Obama told XI in his face the state hacking has to stop. And the articles I read say it has mostly stopped. Maybe it’s still there but scale is not what it used to be. Private companies may still hack on their own though.

Stealing is not cool, and we are right to be upset. But whether that merits waging an all out trade war over is another matter altogether.

[BA_lurker]

It’s a measureable and significant percentage of the GDP (in terms of a hit). It has not stopped. And it not focused only on the US. It is also targeted at UK, Japan, Korea, etc

Is it a reason for a trade war? I don’t know

[manch]

Can you point me to the value assessment of the IP stealing? Sounds like interesting data. What areas are the stealing mainly focused on?

[BA_lurker]

The value assessment I was shown came from the briefing. It sounded plausible and conservative. Btw the espionage is not just on IP theft. The theft even covers negotiating points, pricing, etc. This provides asymmetrical power to one party in a negotiation as they know how much and beyond they can push. We were shown how the information gets extracted and re-used against the party it was taken from

[Roy321]

@wuqijun

They will be futile.

Are you still trolling?

[wuqijun]

Not trolling. Just stating a fact.

[Roy321]

@wuqijun

Not trolling. Just stating a fact.

hmmmm… ookay, after getting demolished on this thread…

[wuqijun]

Uh? Where did I get demolished? Are you that blind?

[Roy321]

@wuqijun

Uh? Where did I get demolished? Are you that blind?

Yesss… I am blind… how do you navigate? by sonar or Infra Red?

There I had the last word… or did I?

[wuqijun]

No. I always get the last laugh.

[Roy321]

@wuqijun

No. I always get the last laugh.

laughed at … J/K

[marcus335]

After FB employees travel to China, they are issued a new laptop. There’s how seriously they take the IP threat.

[tomato]

google locks down employee access to data when they travel.

[hanera]

@manch

Stealing is not cool,

Bill Gates says we should shamelessly copy.
Google and FB steal and sell our data.