Since a lot of you are in SV and/or in the high tech field, what is your opinion on this subject and the possibility that our government may raise the limit on the number of highly skilled foreign workers being able to come to this country? Some argue that the program in general causes brain drain and it hurts our own workers. Some argue that it helps everyone in the end. Who’s right?
much ado about nothing.
Capital flows to where labor is cheapest. No governmental restrictions can overrule this economic reality.
In this case, the capital remains in place while the cheaper labor finds a way to come to it. The result is the same.
It’s just capitalist competition which ends up spreading the wealth around the world over time, with short term peaks and valleys locally.
Right, so I take it you are for unlimited visas then? Wouldn’t that impact workers here and/or future graduates potentially? Does this make our own children have to step up and face the competition, which can be quite fierce? Do we turn into Tiger Moms and Dads even before conception?
We want those people working in the US paying US taxes. It’s really dumb to let them attend our universities, then force them to leave. They’ll just end up being our competition that we trained. If we want to see more Americans in tech, then we should limit how many foreigners attend our universities.
I was talking to a techie last week. Earning $400 a month in India is kind of a substantial change of their way of living.
I think that somebody, somewhere has been missing the bus. It’s been quite a while since this topic surface on the blogs. How long until somebody puts some pressure to entice young Americans to take the necessary education to hold these positions.
But, I believe that like those Malinches (Spanish name for a traitor) denouncing the incoming of too many illegals when they were one or their parents were illegals, you will see that the same people “allegedly” coming to take American’s jobs are going to suffer the same fate the people they replaced went through. They will be seeing how their kids will be put aside by the unstoppable amount of foreign and cheap labor.
Believe me this, there are loopholes the tech companies exploit to make a qualified individual in this country not being able to get a job.
It also brings the other side of the aisle, the poor earners. Once there’s not a lazy American willing to leave the comfort of their welfare/section 8 seat in order to go and move to areas where “the illegals” are doing hard work, you will see this incoming flood of people willing to take their spots, cheap and without so much bsing.
On the other response from Marcus. Yes, it seems stupid to educate somebody from a foreign country and let them leave or tell them to leave. But that’s the reason they came here, to get educated and then go home. Why not make those spots available for Americans?
This also brings the topic of isolationism and nationalism twisted the wrong direction. And you know who wants to go that way.
I believe we have a Tiger Mom thread somewhere…
Again, I don’t have children and I am getting older so the impact to me directly is not so much as say you youngsters or folks with kids. I can totally see both sides of this. Since having experienced parents who drove us fairly hard to do well in school so that we can do better than them, I suppose I would want our kids here to take those jobs first, ideally. Hey, I have to back a US citizen before anyone else if same qualifications, etc, right?
As a person who got green card through H1B and hope her kids to be engineers, I can understand the both sides’ concerns.
However, one thing to keep in mind is tech jobs are different from other fields with consistent demands like medical fields.
For example, before mobile boom started with iPhone or social network boom started with Facebook, job market in Silicon Valley was not as big as now. Innovation in tech field has been the leading power for rapidly growing SV economy and I don’t think that was possible without high skilled tech workers from all around the world.
Now, the question is how much (potential) benefit Americans would take from this tech boom and economic growth?
By comparing SV and Detroit, I think tech boom has definitely helped Americans through tax and money tech employees spend let alone jobs taken by Americans in tech companies.
Now, in terms of concerns on competition for our kids, I am much more worrying about competitions with engineers in Asia than here. If there are 100 jobs and 500 candidates, I think they still have good chance to make it if they try hard. However, if a company decides to move whole division to India or China, there is non available for them.
Our kids will compete not only with workers here but also with workers anywhere in the world.
Thus, wouldn’t it better to have more jobs with more competitions here than to have nothing (or few) in the first place?
A few of my American co-workers complained that they could have made much more money if H1B didn’t exist in a half joking way. However, engineers in SV today makes even more money than Primary Care Physicians as a result of tech boom created partially by tech workers from outside. Isn’t it good enough especially comparing the money and time each occupation requires for education/training?
One of the problem I am seeing, which hurts the life of Americans who have lived in SV, is housing crisis. However, this is common and expected byproduct of economic growth. The issue should be addressed through proper housing plan such as high density housing (with proper plan on schools and traffic.).
I firmly believe “the true power of SV is it can attract the very best talents from all around the world”.
Once it loses this power, I am not sure if it can create as many innovations as today.
Awesome stuff, @Jane. I am going to post this article again here that just crossed the wires since it touches on an area that you mentioned:
@Jane…The problem I see, knowing that some companies break the rules to bring a foreigner instead of hiring a national, is that any position taken is putting another American out of work thus increasing the number of people living in a still abundant economy and increasing need for housing community.
I am a long time resident and I have seen this situation going for the worst. We need, as a country a clear and defined conversation on how to employ nationals instead of foreigners. Maybe push to make university inclined to educate those kids with their faces embedded in an Ipad or playing games instead of learning how to make them?
But again, how realistic is that? The old adage, you can bring a horse to water, but can you make it drink, comes to mind. I mean, parents have to instill the desire in their kids to want to go into engineering right? And again, with my big bro as an tech engineer in SV I have a sense of what he does and knows. Not everyone can do that.
Here is a classic example of bad US policy regarding forcing out foreign talent…http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB125721495250424443
Opponents of H1B’s suffer from the “Fixed Pie” fallacy. They believe the number of jobs, in this case tech jobs, is fixed. So more for foreigners means fewer for us.
Many companies that employ Americans are started by immigrants, or daughters and sons of immigrants. Yes, even icons like Apple and Google. These people actively grow the pie. Next time you catch someone complaining about H1B’s, make sure they don’t work in one of these companies in the first place.
We want the best. Period. We don’t just want a warm body sitting at a desk typing. We want the god damn best. If the best happens to be born in India instead of Iowa? Why the heck do we care? If she’s the good bring her in.
Look at professional sports. Do we want the best pitcher in the world playing in the MLB? Or do just want to confine ourselves in America? Well, it’s called the “World Series” I think we have bigger ambition.
Team USA wants the best.
The answer to any of this relies on…schools!
I laugh when people disparage schools for not “teaching”. So, my question then is…what for? Why do you want your kid to be so educated? Guess what…to beat the other foreigners coming to take their places, you know, because they are dumb as their parents!
I am speaking of my own situation…
You didn’t read between the line. Jane was a H1B and now an American. A soon-to-be American is taking the job from an existing American who could be a previously H1B
America’s biggest export is culture. What happen to demand if isolations policy is implemented? There are always two sides to a coin, one side argument can backfire.
Right, we want the best but it takes time to grow that pie and that could be years. In your example with baseball, theoretically and practically speaking we couldn’t take every Dominican Republic player (supposedly a hot bed for players) even if we wanted to. There are currently team limits in terms of players and actual team organizations. It is not so easy to just oh build another ballpark somewhere…
I was at the DHS office last June, a couple of Engineers from India were waiting for their respective naturalization interview, same as me. They told me of their 15 years waiting for this event. When I told them about my 27 years they felt accomplished.
Now, let’s be cautious on this one. We have talked about the anchor babies, the ugly discussion on immigration and whatnot. So, I believe not all people coming from India or anywhere else want or will be residents and then citizens of this country. I have talked to plenty and they express their desire to go back, probably within 5-6 years (visa expiration?). But I assured them that once you’ve lived in this great country for a year or so, you don’t want to go back where you came from.
So, imagine a collapse of the economy, plenty of jobs lost, whatever case it may be. Those kids born here, or those being educated here will need to go with their parents. Do you get the picture now? It can go both ways, good for the economy at some time, and bad for them at the end if jobs are gone.
What happens the day a lunatic comes with the “no green cards for H1B visas”?
Maybe for the indians. I understand many Chinese left, China is booming. Btw, I don’t have the feeling, didn’t go to get the citizenship. Singapore is better.
God, this could and should be a separate subject thread altogether…
I USED to think China is where its at. Not anymore. Not for the foreseeable future anyway. The pollution and corruption issues are there and simply not going to go away anytime soon. And however corny it sounds, it is not a democratic system of government. No free speech. How do you like your censored internet, sir? Does that sound like a great place to be? Sure, you can probably make some money there with some know-how but why are the rich still trying to bring their money out of the country then?
Not many people care about free speech and freedom. Friends, you’re Americanized to say slightly, more like indoctrinated. Actually government closed one eye to loophole by VPN. Rich people diversifies… no surprise.
If that were really true, then we should be seeing mass exodus back to China. I am not seeing that, although, I am basing it on the wait time meter at Din Tai Fung still…