China Is Like The Landlord and Hong Kong Is Like The Tenant

China will never be as fully open as HK. Its rule of law is a joke. I would say that will be the case for the next 30 years at least.

After 30 years who know. World war 3 would have happened anyway.

Good legal system means nothing. Qin dynasty has an excellent legal system, founding emperor sets a lot of things right for China and is one of the few emperors who didnā€™t kill those generals & strategists that help him conquered China. Qin is one of the shortest dynasty. Despite his contributions, historians think he is a tyrant. His prime minister who design the outstanding legal system dies a horrible death of treason. His scientists design many weapons and equipment that Europeans are able to design in the 16th century. After his death, many knowledge are lost. The legal system is dismantled.

That is the problem. Hong Kongers think they are special.

Regulation and bureaucracy.
While unions can be very destructive we had them in the 30ā€™s - when both spans of the bridge were built in under 4 years. It took what - nearly two decades? - to replace half of it.

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If thatā€™s what China wants to show the world? You are on. We need to contain the thuggish Chinese state.

Hong Kong shows what could happen to China if we help its citizens get rich through engagement and trade. A strong and prosperous middle class will pull China towards our liberal ideal.

Our policy needs to strike a tricky balance. We need to differentiate between the Chinese state, which is turning increasingly thuggish and authoritarian, and its innocent people. But make no mistake. We canā€™t let China trample its people, be they in Hong Kong or xinjiang, without consequences.

ā€œWeā€ meaning America? Or people in general? Are you suggesting America to invade/boycott China to prevent it from ā€œtramplingā€ its people? Are you suggesting the Chinese people should ā€œrise upā€ against its government?

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Blame the high bridge costs on environmentalists, OSHA, Jerry Brown( for requiring the single stay expensive trophy design), Caltrans, biking terrorists and a host of others.

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ā€œWeā€ are Americans. Are we not?

Of course not invading China. Thatā€™s stupid. Tariffs are also not a good strategy, as I have argued many times. Revoking Hong Kongā€™s special treaties may be one way to go. Certainly sanctioning every Chinese company involved in xinjiang crackdown. There are many options.

I donā€™t think you are truly an American. You are a Hong Konger with American citizenship.

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I think itā€™s better to leave every country alone and let each country choose its own way. Intervention of other countries mostly end up badly.

For a big country like China, any intervention would be an arson. If Chinese government is not a good choice for the country, its own citizens will reform, adapt and even overthrow the government. There were many revolutions and many civil wars in its history. Its current government is only 70 years old and the country has a history of thousand years.

Itā€™s not a good idea to isolate China. We can have an isolated North Korea, we donā€™t want an isolated China. If we reject China, there will be other countries to court them.

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@manch think he is a Hong Konger even though he has naturalized

Agree.

Fā€¦ the liberal. History show liberal led to collapse of a nation just like conservative.

Communism is the ultimate liberal ideal. North Korea is liberalā€™s dream country.

China was a liberalā€™s dream in 1970s. Now itā€™s becoming liberalā€™s regret as China adopts market economy and throw away communism like a piece of sh*t :rofl:

California liberals are so stupid and they are led by an AIDS industry crook to assault the citizens with rent control

Intervention of foreign countries is very bad. Obamaā€™s guilt is the Arab Spring, it destroyed countries and killed citizens. His Nobel peace prize should be revoked.

I never said we should isolate China. Quite the opposite. We should welcome as many Chinese to US as students, as tourists and if appropriate as residents.

I disagree. We didnā€™t leave South Africa alone with its apartheid and we didnā€™t leave nazi Germany alone with its Jews concentration camps.

Not quite the right comparisons. Black South Africans did benefit from the end of Apartheid but thereā€™s been an exodus of white South Africans ever since, so the knife really cut both ways. Nazis couldnā€™t be left alone because they were expansionists by definition.

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Huh? So is ok for other nations to intervene Trumpā€™s tyrannical decisions?

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Yup. Itā€™s OK. Does China have the military power, or the allies?

In other words, so long you have the necessary military might, you can dictate what other nations do. Got it!

And you need allies. Not the ā€œfriendsā€ you buy with money.

China doesnā€™t really need any allies if you are counting heads because it has over a billion people which is more people than all the allies of America combined.

Then they better stay home and donā€™t travel abroad, as the Huawei Princess showed.

Xi seems to be going around kissing asses though. Seems rather eager to buy friends.