Ditch SF buy Austin

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Deep in the heart of taxes

Taxes on businesses are increasing, too. In the past six elections California voters have approved more than 800 local taxes on businesses and residents, according to Larry Kosmont of Kosmont Companies, an economic advisory firm. (This does not include votersʼ decision to raise the income-tax rate on the stateʼs highest earners.) For example, last year voters in San Francisco approved the controversial Proposition C, which taxes businesses with more than $50m in gross revenues to fund services for the homeless. Companies with fat profit margins can afford higher taxes, but lower-margin businesses cannot, and these are the ones most likely to consider an alternative location.
Third, Texas has pursued a concerted strategy of wooing and cultivating businesses, whereas California has not. This began with Rick Perry, who served as Texasʼs governor from 2000 to 2015. He travelled to California and other states on “hunting trips” to poach businesses, ran ads on radio encouraging people and companies to move, and offered large incentives to create jobs in Texas. Mr Abbott has continued with these pro-business policies and still operates a “deal-closing fund” to incentivise businesses to come. He is a cheerleader for his stateʼs advantages, including low costs, a central location with good airports and a convenient time zone for doing business with both coasts. He describes Texas as “the quintessential free-enterprise state”. California has not done enough to pursue an economic strategy of its own. “I think we rested on our laurels a bit. We put up our feet and talked about the old days,” admits Mr Newsom. Yet when governors from other states come to California to pitch a relocation, the state still does not intervene to retain companies, which sends the message that it is indifferent, says Barry Broome of the Greater Sacramento Economic Council. The reality of doing business in California, with heavy regulation across most industries, is a fourth disadvantage. For example, the state has some of the most burdensome occupational licensing requirements in America, even for lowand moderate-income jobs, such as tree-trimming. “Itʼs easier to do business in Cuba than San Francisco,” says the boss of one of the Bay Areaʼs most prominent tech firms, which operates in both places. CNBC, a news company that rates Americaʼs states for business, has ranked Texas as first and California as 25th. California has a more educated workforce and stronger innovation, but when it comes to commercial “friendliness” and the cost of doing business, it is in last place and third-to-last place respectively. The heavy cost of regulation is evident in property and contributes to higher prices for homes. You can get a building permit within a few months in Texas, but it can take years in California, where the environmental-review process can be lengthy and lead to expensive lawsuits. “Iʼm an environmentalist, but itʼs completely crazy what happens here. The planning commissions slow-walk everything,” says the boss of one of Americaʼs largest technology companies, based in Silicon Valley. Red tape takes a toll on small firms, too. “If you have the balance-sheet to fight through it, you can make money, but you have to be big and well-capitalised to do business in California,” says Mr Perot. “A little guy canʼt survive. Thatʼs the irony of the politics.” Property projects that use public funds or subsidies, including below-market-value land for affordable housing, must pay “prevailing” wages for workers, which can add 15-25% to the total cost, says Mr Kosmont. This does not happen in Texas. The tech boom has created huge wealth disparities. Local anger and insistence on business contributing more to society could result in extra taxes and red tape. Already San Francisco is one of the few cities in America where “civic leaders openly flay their most successful progeny and throw so many roadblocks in front of young companies,” says Michael Moritz of Sequoia, a leading venture-capital firm. “It makes states and countries that roll out the carpet and offer a welcome to businesses exceedingly attractive.” Tools that Silicon Valley has produced, such as email, video conferencing and messaging, make it possible to work remotely, which will help more companies expand in less expensive states. So far the wealthy have accepted Californiaʼs tax increases without moving en masse. The state boasts many assets, including a long coastline, a global and educated elite, top-tier universities and a concentration of tech expertise. However, its long-term fiscal health is precariously balanced, because it relies on a small number of people to pay for an extensive system of benefits. The top 1% of taxpayers account for 46% of all personal-income tax and 35% of Californiaʼs general-fund revenues, according to Gabe Petek of the Legislative Analystʼs Office, an independent fiscal monitor. Because personal-income tax is the main source of revenue, Californiaʼs fortunes ride on the stockmarketʼs performance. The state has the fifth most volatile tax system of any American state, according to the Pew Charitable Trusts (Texas ranks 21st). Facebookʼs initial public offering in 2012, for example, alone contributed $1.9bn in tax to Californiaʼs coffers. In 2016 the state collected $1bn from a single zip code in Palo Alto. Such concentrated bounty can be welcome when times are good, but it leaves the state more vulnerable when the market falls. Today the state has around $20bn in reserves to withstand a slowdown, but even a mild recession would wipe that out within a single year, says Mr Petek.

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Met someone from McKesson who is in the process of moving from SF to Houston. They said company pay same salary $$ for TX (not sure if it is for transfer only) and they pay for moving expense as well.

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What kind of jobs are you referring to for “IT” employees? Are they mostly support technicians to set up computers for new employees?

Have you stayed in Austin for long period of time? It’s better to live there for 6 months to a year to understand whether it’s worth investment. You need to know some people there and have a deep understanding of Austin

@BAGB kidding me? How does this advice help me when I had invested in Austin for 6 years?

6 years?I think Bay Area was much better than Austin in 2013. You should have bought in BA in 2013 and exchange to Austin today.

What’s the appreciation for your first Austin house? If the statewide rent control passes this year, I’ll visit Austin and get some feeling on how bad the weather can be

Already quite hard to get a decent house in 2013. Have I bought a house in SV, it means no more RE investment for a long time.

Bay Area, Seattle and Austin are the golden triangle. Maybe we should have properties in all three locales.

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Why does weather matter for investment properties if you won’t live there?

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Great minds think alike. I have even expanded the triangle, Seattle to Vancouver :grinning:

Doesn’t Vancouver tax foreign buyers 15%?

Is why I didn’t buy any :smile: and shrink the triangle back to original.

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If weather is bad, appreciation might be disappointing over the long term due to poor desirability. I don’t care whether I like Austin or not, it’s important that a majority of the people love Austin or at least can stand Austin

Now is the time of year to go to Austin. Hot and humid. Doesn’t get much worse.

My goal is diversification, just in case, you didn’t get the drift :grinning: Think about it, you hold a tech job, stay in a place dependent on tech industry, invest in RE that prosper because of tech and invest in tech stocks. In good times, perfectly fine and in fact make you feel like a genius.

The property appreciation is not something you can rely on, as nobody can predict the market fluctuations and time the market. Sure, you can look back and see how things went historically…but “past performance not a guarantee for future results”. What if you plan to sell in 5 years from now and 5 years from now there is a recession or a major dip in RE prices? I don’t think it is wise to base your buy&hold strategy on appreciation hopes, especially for houses with zero or negative cash flow. Appreciation is creme on top of the cake - it might be there, but it might not.

You don’t need to visit then. There’s plenty of data with the answer.

We need a rank of weather, or an overall desirability rank independent from job and income

Easy. Just look at how many people are moving to the city.

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@hanera, you’ve been warned.

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Hear the same thing about the Portland… it’s so silly. What’s the percentage of ex-Californians in Oregon or Texas, 5%?

Really, so your “system” and “culture” can’t handle a few Californians? Guess it’s not that strong.

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