Prop 10 may pass: LA Times poll

[Elt1]

Newcomers know what the are getting. No sympathy from us oldtimers they are forcing out.

People that bitch about Prop 13 should move to Texas.
3% rate and goes up while California investors like Hanera drive up prices.
Wait ten years and all of you will be singing the praises of Prop 13.
Vote yes on 5

[manch]

@marcus335

At least now we know your argument is that prop 13 isn’t fair to newcomers. It has nothing to do with local tax revenue amounts.

Yes it does. I can’t enumerate all the consequences. I am relying people to think thru it themselves.

Think about the distribution of house transactions in the state. Newer areas with lots of buildable space, say the inland empire, will have a lot of these new buyers putting into the system. In more established cities like SF it’s more or less built out, with rabid NIMBY’ism and a large number of freeloaders, it’s much harder on the city budget.

[Elt1]

Nimbyies and environmentalists have decided to deliberately stop development. This is the modern version of saying California is closed to more migrants.
In the 1930s cops were at the Arizona state border turning away American citizens.

This is what the migrants sang in the 1930s, when the Golden State was anything but welcoming to the “tired and poor” masses heading this way from Dust Bowl-ravaged states.

For a few months in 1936, the Los Angeles Police Department launched a foreign excursion of sorts – a “Bum Blockade” on the state’s borders. The LAPD deployed 136 officers to 16 major points of entry on the Arizona, Nevada and Oregon lines, with orders to turn back migrants with “no visible means of support.”

[tomato]

Oh man, there’s no winning. People who are against rent control are in favor of prop 13, only because of their own benefit, and not because of a reasonable argument.

[manch]

@tomato

Oh man, there’s no winning. People who are against rent control are in favor of prop 13, only because of their own benefit, and not because of a reasonable argument.

If that’s the case I prefer they state it upfront like @sfdragonboy did. Not dress it up like there’s some coherent logical argument.

[tomato]

So let me retry from another angle.

You think you own the land, but reality is you are paying rent to state for the title. If you don’t pay that rent (property tax, in case it wasn’t clear), state takes the land from you. You don’t want it to be taken from you, so you implement rent control - prop 13.

When i state it like that, prop 13 sounds similar to rent control, doesn’t it.

[Elt1]

Owning property is our constitutional right. Do renters have those rights? Where is their investment?
Property tax should be banned. Prop 13 was Revolutionary. As inspired by the Revolution.

[manch]

Let’s just ban all taxes, and go back to living in caves. Every man on his own. No police. No firefighters.

Rule of the jungle.

[tomato]

should we pool money to take california to court for forcing unconstitutional property taxes?

[Whoami]

@ptiemann

@sheriff

Prop 10 promises that landlords will just that, a fair return on their investment. Any rent control measure that doesn’t give a landlord a fair return will be invalid.

Proposed rent control in Santa Cruz excludes debt related expenses from operating expenses. I’m sure it’s similar in Richmond and some other cities.

Yes, same in Berkeley, Oakland, San Jose and recently passed in SF as well:

Ordinance amending the Administrative Code to prohibit landlords from seeking rent increases on existing tenants due to increases in debt service and property tax that have resulted from a change in ownership; and to prohibit landlords from seeking rent increases due to increased management expenses unless the expenses are reasonable and necessary. https://sfgov.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3470240&GUID=1823B39B-EB0C-4026-9408-8C57F02866B5&Options=ID|Text|&Search=180318

[Elt1]

Property tax is a wealth tax. Why not tax stocks too?
Switzerland has a 1% wealth tax. That might be more fair than just taxing people out of their homes.

[tomato]

i cant imagine extracting 1b$ out of jeff bezos every year for nothing. lol.

[Mi_chen]

Have to go DMV vote in person or post office?

[Mi_chen]

I see

[manch]

I think you have to go to your polling station. Google it. I have never voted in person.

[marcus335]

Lol. Have you seen the SF city budget? It’s literally one of the largest city budgets in the US. It’s $11B. That’s over $12,000 per resident. San Jose is $3B.

[tomato]

world class budget.

[manch]

So they chose the right path in building for business instead of building for people.

[john]

@manch

I think you have to go to your polling station. Google it. I have never voted in person.

Yes, on election day, you can go to your polling station. If you decide to vote earlier in person, before the election day, you can go to the registrar of voter’s office.

[acre]

@manch

There’s no pivoting. Prop 13 has more problems than one.

Property tax used to be 5% of state economy. Now it’s around 3%. In its place we are over-relying on income tax. That makes state revenue susceptible to boom and bust economic cycle. At times we need to spend on social services, aka when economy is in the toilets, that’s exactly when revenue got slashed as well.

Property tax on commercial are capped too under Prop 13 but other taxes paid by businesses are not capped and scale higher as economy expands. For residential housing service costs scales at inflation rate or higher but property tax revenue does not.

With Prop 13 property taxes rise slowly and reliably as homes change hands which in today’s economy happens on average every 7 years or so. Without Prop 13 property tax takes would boom and bust like everything else - leading to massive overspending in good times and draconian cuts in bad times.