Nobody will convince anyone of anything on this forum. Healthy debate is good.
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My humble suggestion for the name of the new thread(if there is one) would be “Nissan Leaf is Tesla killer And Toyota is Luxury brand”. That might bring in some traffic.
I don’t think this is a situation where one option is all around ‘better’ than the other. Driving around the Bay Area, I would much rather be in EV – it’s quieter, more efficient, faster, and never has to stop at a yucky gas station. When we go skiing Tahoe, we take our old ICE Toyota. It’s bulletproof, handles the snow and cold better, has gnarly tires, and can be refilled in 5 minutes. Of course you could argue that we’re Bay Area yuppies with too many cars, which is true, but we’re also basically the ideal consumer for auto manufacturers since the $40–60k segment of the market is where most of their profit comes from. It’s in their best interest to target this segment.
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That will generate no traffic. People want to talk about Tesla even if they hated it. I wouldn’t mind showing off my success as opposed to their failure either. 
You have no credibility unless you buy a Tesla. And most Tesla owners have more than one ICE car. Meanwhile for those of us that drive less than 15k miles a year, EV is a big waste of money and time.
Calling me names like dinosaur negates your credibility
What? You’re a dinosaur? That’s news to me. I’m not sure if I ever called you one 
Back in the 70’s when I was in grade school we learned about inches, yards and miles. We were assured, however, that all this was going away soon and were also taught the metric system. Here we are, half a century later, and the two still exist side by side. The same will likely happen with EV’s and gas cars. And like metric versus Imperial my guess is gas cars will still dominate in another 50 years.
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Still using paper after the invention of a paperless system. Almost every household has a printer 
If you release a software update—that’s what’s about to happen with Tesla—how do you guarantee that that software update is not going to cause worse problems? And that it will fix the problems that it was supposed to fix?
We have never been in a more dangerous place in automotive-safety history, except for maybe right when cars were invented and we hadn’t figured out brake lights and headlights yet. I really do not think people understand just how dangerous a world of partial autonomy with distraction-prone humans is.
Heck, still using cash. That was supposed to go away years ago.
Still using duct tape when something is busted - just like the 70’s.
People still go blind and die of cancer. No one in the early 70’s would have believed that would be going on in 2023. Or that we would have yet to make it to the nearest planet.
“I have an iPhone, and every time I get a software update there’s bugs in there,” he told Insider. “These bugs mean, for example, that occasionally my news-feed app crashes. That’s not a big deal, because it’s just an annoyance on an iPhone. But that kind of a bug shows up in the software that controls, for example, my brakes or the steering, it can kill you.”
FSD has always been a lie. But the the dream is so inticing that everyone wants to believe
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Toyota sells more electric cars than anyone. In fact buyers prefer hybrids to pure EV. They know that people prefer convenience to
being environmental pioneers.
Stick to RE(your words) & I have learnt some stuff @RE from you such as earthquake and building code and history of Berkeley how it used to be.
However, in other areas I don’t enjoy constantly correcting people who have seen much more life than me.
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Typical response from someone who believes perfection is better than good. Good aka Hybrids solve the carbon emissions issue. No need for all the changing stations and hundreds of new power plants. Unfortunately the greenies have hijacked our government to the detriment of all of us.
”Tesla’s facing a serious problem of a very limited product mix," said Cui Dongshu, secretary-general of the China Passenger Car Association. “Its slowness to respond to Chinese consumers’ preferences has led to a very passive positioning for Tesla to rely on few means, such as price cuts, to stay competitive.”
An appropriate video for this thread. LOL
https://twitter.com/AllinTeslaClub/status/1626968584659390467?s=20
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FSD looks Impressive here.
The sarcasm in the video is on another lever 
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This video is going viral in China. Not sure if Autopilot is involved. But if it’s not Tesla’s fault Elon would have said something already?
https://twitter.com/scmpnews/status/1627699600470511616?s=46&t=b0_6-qNEFlNvdrvgf5waTQ
anecdotes vs anecdotes
presentation slides vs presentation slides