What will it take to reduce Bay Area housing costs?

To solve affordability crisis, Bay Area housing stock must grow 50 percent in 20 years

As of 2015, the median annual household income in San Francisco was $90,530, and the average market-rate apartment rent is approximately $3,600 per month, or $43,200 per year. By these estimates, the average market-rate apartment rent consumes about 48 percent of the median household’s annual pre-tax income. This is a staggeringly high rate: A more normal level is for housing to cost between 25 and 30 percent of pre-tax income. No wonder San Francisco has the lowest housing affordability in the nation, and almost one quarter of the population living below the poverty level when local housing costs are factored in. The figures differ by county but are similar throughout the Bay Area.

So what would it take for the Bay Area to bring its housing costs down to an acceptable level?

A 2016 academic analysis by David Albouy, Gabriel Ehrlich and Yingyi Liu estimated that, in general, rents decrease by 3 percent for each 2 percent increase in the housing stock. (This estimate is close to the estimate of a lengthy blog post analysis at Experimental Geography, done two years ago, looking specifically at San Francisco’s history over the last six decades.)

If our goal is to reduce the average market-rate apartment rent to 27.5 percent of median household income (the midpoint between the 25-30 percent range that is normal), that means reducing the rent from $43,200 to $24,895, a 42.4 percent reduction. Using our ratio of a 2 percent housing stock increase leading to a 3 percent decrease in rents, that means, keeping all else equal, the Bay Area would theoretically need to increase the number of housing units overnight by 28.3 percent. (Let’s round up to 30 percent to make the subsequent calculations more intuitive).

In reality, of course, housing is not built overnight. It will take many years for the Bay Area to make up its housing deficit, so we need to take into account the underlying trend growth of the U.S. population over the intervening period.

For example, if it takes 20 years to make up our housing deficit, and underlying trend growth for the U.S. population is 0.7 percent per year (15 percent over 20 years), and the average household size remains 2.3 persons, then the Bay Area will need to grow households 30 percent more than the amount of households needed to accommodate trend U.S. population growth (i.e. 30 percent more than the underlying 15 percent population growth), for a total growth of housing stock of approximately 50 percent over 20 years.

Let’s state it plainly: The Bay Area must increase its total housing stock by 50 percent over the next 20 years to bring affordability down to a reasonable level.

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We don’t want affordability. We want exclusivity. There’s no affordability “crisis”. Things are fine and dandy the way they are.

… until they suddenly aren’t.

Why do people move to Seattle and Austin?

Not sure if you were serious

I’m absolutely dead serious.

Wrong assumption #1: Things don’t happen “suddenly”, they happen gradually.
Wrong assumption #2: People also move to the Bay Area. It’s normal inflow and outflow.

We can’t assume things always happen gradually and linearly. See the the last straw that breaks the camel’s back.

Speed aside, higher and higher house price just saps the vitality of the region. For guys who want to start a company from their garage, they first need to have a garage. If towns become like Cupertino full of old people the new thing will happen elsewhere. Maybe in Seattle.

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Hello UC Berkeley, Stanford, and SCU.

The garage doesn’t need to be yours. If you are ambitious enough, someone will even “give” you the space. It happens all the time.

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Well, what are the odds? You can’t assume that you’re not going to get hit by a car the next time you walk on the street but you go and walk there anyways.

The only thing that can happen “suddenly” here is an earthquake. I give that to you.

Also, higher and higher price does not sap the vitality of the region. Home prices in the Bay Area has been going higher and higher for the last century and a half. I haven’t seen the vitality of it being sapped one bit.

So fast forward 10 years and Bay Area house price doubles again. An 1500 ft SFH in Sunnyvale is now 5M. You don’t see any problem? You assume the next google and the next Facebook will always be started here instead of maybe in cheaper but equally as good place like Seattle?

Aging population will also suck, i presume.

No, probably startups wont care. 20yos dont own home anyway but just rent. And rents could be like hk. High home prices ridiculously cheap rents (comparing)

Why Seattle then? Detroit is much cheaper than Seattle. So shouldn’t Seattle be afraid that the next Amazon will start in Detroit instead of Seattle?

Corollary: needless fear of rising prices. Just kick back and enjoy the ride! :slight_smile:

The diff is seattle already has an established tech scene.

Other alternatives include austin, nyc etc.

Ok fine. Then substitute Detroit with Austin. Austin is much cheaper than Seattle and the same comparison is legit.

Whatever. You can point out ten thousand minor details to set Seattle apart from the rest but at the end of the day none of that will matter.

Seattle prices are also skyrocketing to the moon anyway. It is not like it will be much different.

That’s right. So given that being the case, it is even more absurd to assume that an affordability “crisis” is exclusive to the Bay Area and that places like Seattle or Austin will reap the benefit of Bay Area’s “downfall”.

Seattle is much more pro growth. Also the biggest difference: Seattle doesn’t have Prop 13.

Bay Area’s lead is still big. Probably safe for next 5 or even 10 years. But I find it hard to believe, if a random 50 year old crap shack in Sunnyvale cost 5M and something newer, nicer and bigger in Seattle only cost 1.2M, our tech scene would still lead Seattle as much. That people would just suck it up and stay.

More than price shooting up, the biggest warning signal to me is school closing. That tells me young families are moving out. You don’t want BA to become another Hong Kong. There is no industry left in Hong Kong. High rent and high price is killing everything off.

1/ Are housing prices really that unaffordable? (note that unaffordable and “super high” do not have the same meaning for the purposes of this convo.) I read somewhere (perhaps a link on this forum?) that bay area housing prices are a higher percentage of folks’ salary precisely because the relationship is non-linear. Assuming all other things being equal, a fam in St. Louis might spend 40K/yr on necessities like car, groceries, insurance, televisions, etc … and those things cost roughly the same in St. Louis as they do in the Bay Area. Perhaps a smidge more, so let’s say they cost 45K here. Now the kicker is above that 40K / 45K line, all additional excess income is free to go to housing ---- hence the nonlinearity. With the median FB salary being 240K, there are a lot of income-rich folks out there.

2/ Once the tech-boom really busts, demand for housing will drop. In my view we haven’t had a tech bust in a while — the great recession a la 2007-2012 really didn’t have a tech BUST at that, although other industries were hard hit.

3/ OK so I would argue that we have plenty of “affordable” homes — but the problem is that the affordable homes are too far away in less desirable areas - Pleasanton, Antioch, etc. The desirable homes are in Palo Alto, SF, etc. And the two don’t mix.

Forcing “Diversity of housing” and relying on a single silver bullet in a certain area is fraught with NIMBY issues.

In my view we need to do a couple things — and all of them, not just one -

a/ Increase Density - increases supply
b/ Remove rent control - increases supply for a given dollar amount of rent b/c the landlord won’t be afraid of getting trapped w/ too low rent
c/ Improve Transport Infrastructure - same thing as increasing supply as this reduces the friction to get to places where land is cheaper
d/ Have a Tech Bust - this will decrease demand, and the ones that are barely hanging on in the Bay Area will leave. The side effect is that this will implicitly improve transport infrastructure.

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There’s nothing wrong with Hong Kong. It’s the city with the highest standard of living in all of China. It doesn’t have industry because it doesn’t need industry. The dirty work has been offloaded to the mainland. Citizens kick back and enjoy. Personally, I wouldn’t mind BA turning into another Hong Kong.