Well said, @Terri ! I never needed any role models in my life other than my parents. Seeing Hillary as a potential role model is already a problem in and of itself.
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Thank you for your thoughts, @Terri. Obviously I have a much higher opinion of Hillary than you, but I can see your points and appreciate your frankness.
Hillary is almost 70 years old. I think we can agree that itâs always been tough for women to break the glass ceiling, and 30 or 40 years ago it was much tougher than today. Whether Hillary stayed with Bill for pure career reason I donât know, and itâs entirely their own private matter. For me I give points to people who stick to their marriages through thick and thin. Itâs not easy. Even if Hillary stayed with Bill for nothing but career reason, thatâs fine with me. Plenty of men do the same and no one fault them for it.
My older girl is already keenly aware of what boys do and what girls do. I am surprised she picked up the ever so subtle gender hints we so pervasively embed in our culture. When I hear she said things âboys play footballâ and âgirls danceâ, a tiny part of me died because to me, her world just gets a little smaller. We donât have enough women programmers. We hardly have any women CEOâs. And we have zero women president. Kids see what other people like them do to see whatâs possible for them. Parents can talk all day long, but it never became ârealâ unless they see real world example.
We donât have enough women programmers
Why do we have to get woman to work in IT? Compare to guys, girls/women are less interested in Math, critical thinking. Itâs the truth. Iâve worked with great woman engineers, but majority of the woman i know is bad in math and not interested in computer. India is better, but US the woman just bad in Math. Letâs not make everything about race/sex and letâs make it about who is the BEST fit for the jobâŚ
Like if you ask me to become a PR, i canât, my personality and skill doesnât fit that job.
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I have not seen any scientific evidence the female brain is worse in math than males. If you find such study let me know.
If itâs not due to nature that means itâs due to nurture. Maybe our culture and school system actively or inactively discourages young girls to take up math? Maybe they have math teachers like you who think girls are just not good at math? Maybe they donât see women programmers and donât see themselves in that career? Maybe our culture donât reward girls for their math geekiness the same way we reward how they look?
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You donât need scientific evidence, you talk to the girls you know and try starting a conversasion about computers and math, and theyâll go away. They are just not interested, dudes/ geeks will talk all day. Of course, thereâs still some and doing very well and really into tech. Iâm just saying this is the experience i have, i do not get that many resume from woman that apply . Indian woman are better and more in quantity, but not woman americans born here. The ratios men vs woman interested in studying math, algorithm/data structures is 3 to 1 at least when the time i study computer science in college.
Iâm not sexist , itâs just the TRUTH, ask woman in this board if they love math?
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Uh, a porn movie skit broke out with Bill, remember???
I am not disputing the outcome. I am disputing the reason why that comes about. I donât believe the female brain is less interested in math or worse in math than male brain. Maybe it is. I just have never seen any scientific evidence.
So I look for social reasons, and I see tons of biases.
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Found this on the net that is encouragingâŚ
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Great article from Mr.8. This quote is very illuminating and explain why @dioworld saw more female engineers from India:
âIf you [ask] a young girl, âwhat do you want to do?â most donât know what they want to do, what they enjoy, what theyâre going to be really good at,â Charles said. That makes it easy to absorb stereotypes,â according to Charles, as opposed to in poorer countries where girls are encouraged to at least try math because a STEM career pays better and will increase the familyâs coffers.
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Oh Great OB1,
Here is another article (dated) from The Farm no less but interesting neverthelessâŚ
Geez, you want us to read a goddamn academic paper past midnight?
I am an engineer and i love math and science.
My mother studied math at college and taught math to students.
My daughter loves math and want to study CS at college.
I am not from India.
Most of my female friends are engineers.
My mother always emphasized how important math was when i was young and encouraged me to study STEM. I went to science/math magnet school and met winderful female friends who became engineers and scientist. I met many bright female engineers in SV.
My daughter used to think engineering was boring stuff but when i encouraged her to try different things, she found how fun it would be.
Setting aside whether Hillary is a good role model or not to a girl, it is clear that stereotyping on one group put them in disadvantageous position. As a person, who had to fight against such stereotypes almost throughout the life, i know it by heart.
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This is what happen now. Everyone is so sensitive.
Read my comments. I say i donât care man/woman/race as long as BEST for the job
The experience and resume is that numbers are actual man is more than woman.
is not about woman not capable, but iâm saying more woman does not like math than man. Number of these geeks/gurus/hackers are male, they just into it more, Go to tech expos, Normally numbers of male are more into learning those technology. woman do too, but i say itâs the NUMBER. no one is preventing woman from liking math/tech, itâs the NUMBER and majority of my female friend, do not have those GEEK passion
I work with great woman engineers. now people under these times are so sensitive about race, gender.
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ADMIN, please remove my account from this board.
Iâm not a sexist now makes me seem like a sexist, this is whatâs happening to this country. OVERSENSITIVE
How was it??? Enthralling and full of data porn???
California has diverged sharply from the rest of the nation in recent years. And, we will lose electoral votes in the 2020 census. One party rule here is forcing conservatives to leave - which will strengthen the hand of red states in the electoral college. Also, the population is aging and people as a general rule get more conservative as they age. I think your 10 yeas is closer to 30.
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Letâs settle on 20. I can live with 20. 
It appears that the liberals canât accept the conservatives. Ainât diversity good? Or some diversity is good, some are bad?
In Singapore, girls do like Maths and CS but in different segment. There are more female accountants and MIS (management info system) professionals. Males prefer to attend Computer Engineering courses, females prefer Computer Science courses.
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Yup, is almost like a different nation. Perhaps, Californians should vote to leave USA.
Iâm pretty sure the testosterone does change things. I remember reading about a woman who took hormone therapy to trans, and she said that she found that physics became much more interesting to her with the hormones.
I love math, and Iâm a programmer. But I donât give a sh*t at all how many girls go into software engineering. I think people should do what they love, and that we need to acknowledge that women and men are different. If girls love more social endeavors then go for it. As an major introvert, Iâm perfectly happy talking to a computerâdoing sales would give me a heart attack. My daughter, on the other hand, canât stop talking. If sheâs like this when sheâs 18, I donât think being holed up with a computer would be a good match for her.
The biggest reason that women have a harder time becoming a CEO is the family issue. We get pregnant, we give birth, and we should be breastfeeding if the body allows as itâs healthier both mom and kids. We get attached to the babies that way. A lot of women stay home after that because they feel the call of motherhoodâthey hate leaving the baby at a daycare. That sets you on a path on non-employment.
What sucks is being told by your husband that if he were to interview someone like me, he wouldnât recommend hiring me because after my time off, I havenât learned enough programming languages in the last 10 years. Maybe heâs right, but thatâs where the problem is then. On the other hand, a friend of mine who is a CEO did say that heâd readily hire me if I just learned a new language and platform and did something as simply as write an app to display picture on my iphoneâjust show him you can still learn. But if the door is closed after you take time off for motherhood, itâs a problem.
I know at least two women who became professors who were very concerned about having kids during the tenure period. Women simply donât trust the clock to really stop when you have a kid during tenure, especially when theyâre being judged by a panel of men. The first one had two kids during her PHDâshe said that was perfect because there wasnât a clock, and her professor was supportive. Her husband stayed home with the kids during the day and worked nights as a waiter. The second one waited until after she got tenure. What was ironic is that the second one was very much a feminist and was involved in advocacy work during college. So for her to admit to me that she was afraid to have kids until after tenure made me really sadâobviously as a woman and a feminist, she knew the clock should stop and she wanted it to stop, but she was afraid to find out if it would.
The other problem is that someone has to be there for child sick days. If the husband and wife are willing to split that, great, BUT, not all husbands are (nanomug posted in another thread about a wife she worked with whose husband wouldnât take the day off when she had a deadline that dayâI think that happens more often than we might think). So that means hiring a sick nanny which sometime makes the mom feel replaced. Women have to really have a positive sense of self for work-motherhood balance. Or family kicks in, and thatâs great for those who live near a mother/MIL that they trust.
I think this article is interesting: CEO of Pepsi says âI donât think women can have it all.â:
And honestly, now that Iâm a mom, I agree with her. I really appreciate her coming out and saying it. It needs to be said. Even fathers donât get it allâmy husband would love to stay home with the kids, but heâs the one with the job, so he canât. I think it bothers him too.
I absolutely believe that girls should view any job as available to them. I agree that they should never be viewed by a teacher as less capable to in learning science, math, and engineering, and honestly, my teachers were all very supportive of me 25 years ago. I even had a professor who I had met through the high school math contest that he ran and later took a university class from in 12th grade, take me aside and suggest that I get a PHD in math because there werenât enough women professors. That was a huge compliment! Unfortunately, I didnât think I wanted to teach (now, I actually wish Iâd done what he said). Beyond that, though, I think we should let girls explore all the possibilities AND that we really should be counseling girls on which careers are easier to do part time, or easier to restart after having kids. Unlike me, many girls know that they want to have kids when they are deciding on collegeâit would be helpful to explain how easy it will be for them to take time off with the kids and jump back into the game.
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