Why this thread is highjacked with TSLA when we have separate thread for TSLA?
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In the early days of automobiles auto makers leveraged the existing network of stores selling kerosene, a common household fuel, the distribute gasoline so it was never a problem. And it’s not early days for plug-in EV’s; we’re about 20 years in.
Once you get out of urban centers most trips are what you would consider a “road trip.” Marana was an example; it’s pretty typical of my travel patterns and those of my neighbors.
Guess those of us in places like this will need to wait for NIO to come to the US and establish a real network if we want an electric car.
It’s another reason I say fuel cell is the end game. It can use existing gas stations infrastructure.
As for swapping battery packs, that’s a logistical nightmare. How many battery packs can a gas station store? If everyone drove an EV that required changing the battery pack, they’d never have enough storage space.
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The whole EV infrastructure, lifecycle and environmental impact hasn’t been throughly vetted. If is basically a religious movement. Lots of hope and very little planning.
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Not many. Battery packs can be charged in the gas station. Only need enough to cater for the rate of car coming in.
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Costco fills 24 cars every 5 minutes in a typical store. What happens when 24 cars show up every 5 minutes at a Tesla superstation? Total chaos. Lines that will make 70s lines during the oil embargo look short.
Swapping battery packs is a total nightmare. Supercharging can already handle 360 mi/hr. 2x or 3x that and your car is charged by the time you buy a soda and go to the bathroom.
Fuel cells are another nightmare. Who wants to drive around in a car full of literal rocket fuel. EV is way more practical considering we already have 90% of the infrastructure and you can generate the power with whatever renewable is readily available in a specific locale (e.g. solar, wind, hydro).
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so, agree it takes long but most of those cars WON’T go to a gas station because you can charge at home. you can’t fill up a gas tank at home. But you CAN put chargers in each parking spot. So Costco will put a charger in each spot, people charge while they shop. When I helped install EV charging at my office, the vendor told me he could put up to 100 L2 chargers (Tesla AND non tesla) on a 600a breaker box, and they algorithmically manage the charging to optimize for whoever is charging at the moment on those chargers. We put in 39 chargers (not 100) but same concept. With gas stations, you NEED the current expensive infrastructure. With chargers, you can string up charges/solar panel shade on whatever parking spots you need.
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Won’t happen, not necessary. Everyone will have a level 2 charger in their parking spot. Superchargers are only needed on major highways like the 80 and the 5.
yes, and even then you don’t need a huge tank for gas storage, etc, you just need the super chargers, and if it is especially remote, you can slap a transformer level energy storage system next to with some solar to balance out the local grid.
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So if you live in an apartment with no garage like in SF where do you charge? EVs are for the rich in the suburbs with a three car garage and two other cars for long trips. Basically a commuter vehicle. Which ironically covid19 had made unnecessary. Why do you think Craigslist SF is full of late model Teslas for sale. They aren’t needed. Just a fashion statement… 2800 Used Teslas. More than any other make. Nobody wants them.
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My ICE 4Runner is 14 years old. Barely broken in. The average ICE car in the US is 12 years old. But people are dumping their EVs after three years. What is environmentally friendly about that? There will still be a 1.5 billion ICE cars worldwide on the road in 2035. What is going to happen to them? 50 million cars a year being built. 99% are ICE. The transition will take so long that other smarter solutions to EV like hydrogen will become competitive. Hybrids make the most since for the next 20 years.
Last year, new vehicles represented 6.1 percent of vehicles on the road, but this year IHS Markit predicts that they will be around 5 percent of vehicles. While that isn’t necessarily good news for automakers, repair shops could benefit from more people holding onto their vehicles rather than replacing them, particularly in the case of vehicles now coming off of warranties.
5% new only per year. In 20 years only 5% new max per year cars will be electric. That means another 20 years till all electric or a huge cash for clunkers program.
My guess is the future reality will be more like Cuba. A depressed economy with a few new EVs and millions of 30-50 year old ICE clunkers.
If you don’t have an assigned spot and are out fighting for something on the street it gets a bit tricky. In this situation people usually charge at work or while they are shopping. You don’t need a garage (I keep my classic ICE cars in there anyway) – our charger is right by the front door and can reach anywhere in the driveway.
It is nice to be rich and have options. Most ICE owners are not. They want F150s. Teslas are being given away through subsidies. Meanwhile new trucks are going for $90k. The Democrats have no idea the hatred that will be generated when they try to take Trumpers trucks away.
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you are right on all points right now. Multi family and street parking are challenges all utilities, including PG&E are grappling with. But the reason I bought SBE (ChargePoint) and should have bought BLNK was charging is going to be the big growth of the next 2-5 years, and the entire pie will grow, so even if Tesla opens up its SuperCharger network, there is still so much growth.
However, I would bet they will figure out Multi family in urban in the 2-3 (ok maybe 5) years. Because that is my world that I am in right now. 
the lifecycle cost of EVs is terrible, and everyone knows it, and there is research being done. but yes, it is a MUCH more challenging problem than charging infrastructure
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I want an F-150 too! But at $90k and 18–20 mpg it’s not financially responsible given my pre-Covid commute with only me in the car of ~50 miles/day. So instead I will buy a Rivian or Cybertruck for ~$45k after subsidies that I can charge at home for 17 cents/kW, goes 0–60 in 4 seconds and gets 80 mpge. I would advise your ICE owning friends that they would get closer to being “rich” if they did the same.
Btw I’ve been a gearhead for 20 years, have owned corvettes, alfas and BMWs, toyotas, early 70s cars through the present. Working on cars can be a lot of fun, but I’ve spilled enough oil, coolant and transmission fluid on myself to realize how much simpler an electric motor is from a maintenance and repair perspective. EV is the future.
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I appreciate your thoughtfulness. However I think you are wrong. I just hope something better than EVs comes along. And I don’t understand why 50 mpg hybrids aren’t a better solution. Maybe in 5 years there will be plug in hybrids that get 100mpg( my Prius did downhill)
They would eliminate all the infrastructure needs of pure EVs. I think Toyota is definitely best in class for hybrids and maybe a good stock investment. Definitely they should put lithium batteries in the Prius. I guess they are in the Prius Prime plug in but not any other Toyota’s… seems as good as most EVs plus no range anxiety
Fuel Economy and Real-World MPG
All three Prius Prime models have the same EPA ratings, which are 55 mpg city and 53 highway for the gasoline engine. Combined with electricity from the hybrid system, the government estimates it will earn 133 MPGe
Fuel cell can work off regular gas or even natural gas.
Um, do people realize how expensive it’d be to put chargers in parking spots in a large number? I also doubt the grid would be able to handle the load.
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Appreciate that, they’ve been used for decades in racing. But then what’s the point??! It’s just a regular ICE car pumping out CO2 and particulates with a reinforced gas tank.
Gas takes space as well. And it’s not swapped around like those battery packs. Logistical problems - sure - but nothing like plug-in.